Has anybody came across when actuall autolysis sets in? It's most peoples concern and reason to rack to the secondary but I have yet to see or read at what point is happens.
Im sure it's based on yeast health, temp, and time. So, each batch is different, but are we looking at 7 days? 12? 14? 30 days?
Just currious?
People have successfully left their beers in primary for up to 6 months without any sign of autolysis. That's one of the reasons it's been pretty much disproved as nothing but a bogeyman to the homebrewer.
New brewers tend to be too busy cleaning up from crapping their pants after reading palmers section on it in HTB to actually notice his final comments on the subject
Quote:
John Palmer
As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.
Even when Palmer is talking about it, he's talking about it in terms of LAGERS not ales. Most people get so freaked out about in reading Palmer, that they don't notice it is in the Lager chapter, nor do they notice the caveat at the end of the section that I posted above.
I still believe that POSSIBLY autolysis WAS a concern to homebrewers 20-30 years ago, when the yeast came in dry cakes, of dubious heritage and came across from where homebrewing was legalized in the hot cargo holds of ships and may have sat for months in terrible conditioned...In other words was unhealthy to begin with.
And therefore may have crapped out and made for nastiness, (and also was prone to stick fermentation as well.) and tales of it just continued to perpetuate over time, even though yeasts are much more healthy and fresh, and more is understood about them nowaday....people gravitate to the negative and fear and still perpetuate those worries...over and over and over....
And I still maintain that as much as I like Palmer, he contributed to the hysteria.....I mean noone but me seems to notice that that section on the scary autolysis appears in the chapter on lagering. He is not talking about it with ales...or beers in general..just lagers..because flaws are more perceptable in lagers...since in essence most commercial lagers are tasteless...anything would stand out..
So really, you have little to worry about in terms of autloysis, especially in those timeframes you are asking about.
DO you think we'd repeatedly leaving our beers in primary for a month, if it were really an issue? Don't you think we'd be saying move your beer, rather than saying that we have found our beers actually better being left in an extended primary in contact with the yeast?
Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YooperBrew
I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac!
Depends on style and gravity. I leave it on the yeast for a couple of weeks after I;m sure fermentation has finished with most run of the mill 1.050-1.060 ales I do.
I don't have experience with American Wheat beers, but m Bavarian Hefeweissen I brew I've drunk 8 dats after it went into the fermenter. Its a hood beer when very young. Most of my other ales are terrible that young. But when the other ales are getting to be ther best the Hefe is on it way out. Losing a lot of flavor, but still very good.
I brewed a Tripel at the end of the summer last year that I left in the carboy for a month and a half and transfered to a corny keg to condition for 3 more months. Still not ready yet, but its a high gravity beer.
Below is an actual thread with John Palmer from yesterday. Take it as you like.
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On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:55 PM, John Palmer wrote:
Hi John,
You don't need to secondary unless you are brewing with fruit added after the initial fermentation, or souring the beer after the initial fermentation. Your secondary fermentation, in other words the conditioning of the beer, the refinement of flavors, should be occuring in the primary fermenter during the late first week or the second week of the fermentation.
A secondary USED to be recommended all the time to get the beer off the yeast before they autolyzed, but today, homebrewers are more aware of yeast health, they are the sickly things rising from dry yeast packets that they used to be and a transfer off the yeast after the first week is no longer required.
Okay? Good Brewing,
John
On Mar 23, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Johnnybrew wrote:
John,
I am CERTAIN you have gotten this question before. Is there a clear definitive answer? The blogs and boards are rife with opinions and no one has any data (here's an example: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/does-everyone-rack-secondary-82693/). I have your 2006 edition of How to Brew and have read it from cover to cover. It's 2010... do you have any new data or thoughts?
Thanks for any input and thanks for the education. Your book is great.
Regards,
John M
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If you can read this, you're not drinking enough.
All I know is I just tried, for the first time, doing an IPA entirely in a primary fermenter. Dry hopping and everything.
~12 days, then 10 days for dry hopping. 12 days bottle conditioning so far and it's carbonated and delicious - I expect it to be even more delicious in a couple weeks when the last of the green flavors have faded.
Makes for a more compact brewing setup, less risk of contamination, less mess and I can invest that time into new brews rather than fussing with my existing ones. Revvy's posts on the subject were no small influence in my decision to do away with secondary for most brews - so thanks, Revvy!
I usually get a lot of hop trub and break material into the primary. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes accidentally. If I have a lot of this material in the primary, is it still advised to leave the beer on it for a long period of time?
I usually get a lot of hop trub and break material into the primary. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes accidentally. If I have a lot of this material in the primary, is it still advised to leave the beer on it for a long period of time?
I am a confirmed dumper, everything goes in my primary, and after a month it has compressed so much that it is left behind.
Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YooperBrew
I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac!
I usually get a lot of hop trub and break material into the primary. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes accidentally. If I have a lot of this material in the primary, is it still advised to leave the beer on it for a long period of time?
Republished from BrewingTechniques' November/December 1993.
Hot trub, the protein precipitate formed during the boil, can impede fermentation and produce undesirable qualities in the finished beer. Simple, effective methods allow professional and home brewers to remove this unwanted by-product.
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Removing hot trub is essential to produce a quality beer. A well-engineered whirlpool or hop back provides an inexpensive, effective separation method.
For me, after my boil, I cool it down as quickly as possible with an ice bath and a wort chiller. I gently stir the wort several times to ensure even cooling and get a vortex going. The vortex will move the majority of the trub and other particulate matter to the center. Then, when I siphon, I put my racking cane in the corner of my boil pot to reduce pulling any trub up into my carboy. The less trub the better.
__________________
If you can read this, you're not drinking enough.
I like using a secondary so I am not rushed to bottle at any point. My question is. When you guys use a secondary and give it a little extra time, do you notice the time to carbonate is much longer? Two batches I've done have taken about 3 times as long as when I go straight from the primary. I assume this is because more yeast is dropping out in the secondary, but each time my carbonation isn't nearly as high as my other batches. For now I'm just using the same amount of priming sugar per batch.
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