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Old 10-03-2008, 08:58 PM   #31
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If you dont like secondary or are lazy get a conical......makes life easy
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:48 PM   #32
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Well I still secondary unless its in the conical. Reason being if I keg it I will drink it before I should . This way the beer isn't green and I have beers in the pipeline all the time, this weekend "Its Porter time" in a bad imitation of MC Hammer
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:50 PM   #33
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I think secondary's are old school no need to do them as others have said.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:36 AM   #34
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I did my first all-grain IPA today and was planning a 1 week primary and a 2 week secondary since I wanted to dry-hop. Can you dry-hop in the primary instead and just let it sit for 3 weeks??
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:11 AM   #35
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I'm a noob here in the forums but have always racked off to a secondary. When I was getting started I'd read that you didn't want the beer sitting on the trub and potentially dead yeast for too long. I haven't had a bad batch in two years and generally get nice clear beer unless I forget to throw the Irish moss in (did that last time). Also forces me to let the beer age a bit more before I keg and I usually do some dry hopping in the secondary although I have dry hopped in the primary with good results.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleTwanger View Post
Here's what Noonan says about racking:

"Employing up to 5 percent strongly fermenting kraeusen beer at racking produces a stronger start of secondary fermentation and a better overall fermentation. This absolutely must be done when yeast performance during primary fermentation has been poor, as it replenishes the degraded culture."

"Racking must be done without rousing or splashing to prevent oxygen from entering the solution"
This "secondary fermentation" is the process of bottle conditioning or krausening, creating a small fermentation in the bottles/cask to get carbonation. It is not refering to anything that most homebrewers think of as a "secondary".

Most homebrewing pratices are taken from commercial breweries and scaled down. Since we don't have the need to move as much beer through our production lines as possible, we don't need to empty out the fermenter. The only reason that conditioning tanks exist is to allow for the production of more beer. That said, I only use a conditioning tank for long conditioning such as lagers so I can free up my primary, or when dry hopping because yeast can cause hop oils to precipitate out of solution. Otherwise, no conditioning tank neccesary.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:07 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by billtzk View Post
It's funny how trends change over time.

In the not too distant past, many brewers aspired to fly sparge to get the best yields from their grains; now most brewers (judging by responses on this board, anyway) prefer batch sparging and some even claim it gives better yields than fly sparging.

Not too long ago, the most sound and sage recommendation from experienced brewers to newbies was to get your beer off the trub and into a "conditioning" vessel (it's not for secondary fermentation, they'd say) as quickly as possible after fermentation stops to avoid autolysis (cannibal yeasties eating their own), and to give the beer time to clear and let sediment fall out. Now many brewers seem to skip the conditioning altogether, and go straight to the keg or bottle from a long, three to four week primary. Occasionally you even hear from some brewers that they let their beer remain in primary for absurdly long times, up to 12 weeks. A couple of years ago on this board you'd have been told to dump it if it was on the cake that long.

My change from batch sparging to fly sparging has brought me a 16% improvement in efficiency, so I think I'll stick with fly sparging. I still get my beer off the trub and yeast cake within two weeks, and then condition my beer in another vessel for several weeks before bottling. I think my beer is much improved by that process although I haven't done any comparison testing.
That's for sure -- I've noticed the change just in the relatively short time (less than a year) I've been around on this forum.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarleyWater View Post
This "secondary fermentation" is the process of bottle conditioning or krausening, creating a small fermentation in the bottles/cask to get carbonation. It is not refering to anything that most homebrewers think of as a "secondary".

Most homebrewing pratices are taken from commercial breweries and scaled down. Since we don't have the need to move as much beer through our production lines as possible, we don't need to empty out the fermenter. The only reason that conditioning tanks exist is to allow for the production of more beer. That said, I only use a conditioning tank for long conditioning such as lagers so I can free up my primary, or when dry hopping because yeast can cause hop oils to precipitate out of solution. Otherwise, no conditioning tank neccesary.
Noonan is specifically talking about lagers but the idea for Ales is the same and he's not referring to bottling or casking but secondary that homebrewers use:
"The purpose of racking is to seperate the beer from decaying yeast cells and flavor impairing precipitates. Care must be taken that no yeast sediment or trub is carried along into the secondary fermentation....Cone-bottomed "unitank" fermenters preclude the necessity for racking to a secondary/lagering tank. Trub is discharged from the bottom outlet throughout the course of primary fermentation."

He then goes on to describe lagering, terminal gravity, fining, and finally casking and/or bottling.
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Old 10-05-2008, 11:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleTwanger View Post
Noonan is specifically talking about lagers but the idea for Ales is the same and he's not referring to bottling or casking but secondary that homebrewers use:
"The purpose of racking is to seperate the beer from decaying yeast cells and flavor impairing precipitates. Care must be taken that no yeast sediment or trub is carried along into the secondary fermentation....Cone-bottomed "unitank" fermenters preclude the necessity for racking to a secondary/lagering tank. Trub is discharged from the bottom outlet throughout the course of primary fermentation."

He then goes on to describe lagering, terminal gravity, fining, and finally casking and/or bottling.
I haven't read the book myself, but tell me, why on earth would anyone add 5% actively fermenting beer to their conditioning tank. And why would this matter...
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Care must be taken that no yeast sediment or trub is carried along into the secondary fermentation
...if you are just going to add more yeast back in the with the 5%.

The process of krausening is well documented, and is for the production of bottle and cask conditioned beers in order to get carbonation.
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Last edited by BarleyWater; 10-05-2008 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 10-05-2008, 11:20 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarleyWater View Post
I haven't read the book myself, but tell me, why on earth would anyone add 5% actively fermenting beer to their conditioning tank. And why would this matter... ...if you are just going to add more yeast back in the 5%.

The process of krausening is well documented, and is for the production of bottle and cask conditioned beers in order to get carbonation.
Basically you answered your own question, but, also it is for the reduction of diacetyl.

BTW, I generally secondary, but, don't krausen my brew.
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