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Old 06-07-2012, 01:54 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by JoeBronco View Post
After conferring with Tasty about this thread. His EXACT words are

Here is "post 28"
....

If you cant take advice from us, please take advice from a professional in the business. No one is saying not to push the limits of brewing but try to take into consideration the mistakes others have made before you. You are still new to brewing. Get a handle on the basics and get a few brews under your belt. No one want to see good beer go to waste and a newbie get deterred when his beer dose not turn out as planned.

Intelligence is learning from your own mistakes
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Tell Smelly that I've got a good portion of the basics, but I MUST understand all the limits, or else I'll drive everyone else crazy in the process trying to understand those limits.

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can you rephrase the question?
There's too many.

At this point, it would be... how is it possible for a Black Maxx 5-gal stir plate to stir beer, yet not oxidize it? It doesn't allow the CO2 to escape??

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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I know the OP said he's "out" so that's fine. but something was bugging me about the color change described. During brewing this afternoon, it hit me!

The wort color will be the finished beer color. It can't get darker or lighter - except for while there are hundreds of billions of yeast in suspension and then it will get back to its original color after much of the yeast falls out and the beer clears.

If the beer darkens, and it's not attributable to the yeast falling out of suspension, it is probably due to oxidation. One of the classic signs of oxidation is a darkening of the beer.
...

The OP stated that the beer went from light yellow to dark rusty. If it turns rusty or dark colored, it almost is certainly oxidation.
I really don't think it's oxidation, as we haven't stirred after racking to secondary.

I'm only 99.999% sure that it comes from the extract not caramelizing. I should have boiled it for at least a minute, but I had misunderstood your comment of adding it "near the end" of the boil, instead of "after". But its color is now very close to the "boiled hops" before I added the Light LME.

We'll be bottling it in the next 2 or 3 days, and then drinking it 4 weeks after that. Really can't wait to see how it turns out.

Have stopped brewing until we see the results of that batch.

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Originally Posted by emjay View Post
I actually have a 5-gallon stirplate, which I've tried on whole batches (doesn't cause oxidation because of positive pressure). I got it as a test unit but I believe it's sold under the name "Black Maxx".

It speeds up the fermentation of beer a bit, but that's about it. I find it mostly useful for mead.
Wow. That's pretty cool. I was just joking when mentioning that, but it's definitely neat.

Are there more like that? Or is that a one of a kind?
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:02 AM   #82
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At this point, it would be... how is it possible for a Black Maxx 5-gal stir plate to stir beer, yet not oxidize it? It doesn't allow the CO2 to escape??
It has an airlock, with positive CO2 pressure inside the bucket from fermentation. Excess CO2 can get out, but oxygen cannot get in.

A starter on a stirplate doesn't have an airlock (at least, it shouldn't if you're doing it right), just a foam stopper or aluminum foil, or something like that, which allows gas to pass freely both directions. As the liquid swirls around it is causing the gas in the container to move around as well, which causes some O2 to get sucked in and some CO2 to get blown out.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:41 AM   #83
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As soon as this thread fades into oblivion and I finish the book, Yeast... I will then be able to make my hypothesis.
In other words, you decided that whirlpooling must be good without any rational basis, and only *after* having decided this do you go looking for a way to justify this. This is also evidenced by your tendency on this thread AND the your idea about bottle-conditioning in mason jars (didn't even realize it was the same person until you mentioned it!) It's not only irrational... it's flat-out anti-scientific. And it's made it entirely clear that you're obsessed with the thought of being responsible for a massive shift in the brewing paradigm... something I tend to almost exclusively see in people in their low 20's or younger. People with a bit more maturity don't typically insist that they'll be able to completely overturn mountains of scientific knowledge from professional brewers, biochemistry, and other scientists, with a mere hunch that not only has no scientific basis, but is in fact is strongly opposed to all this science... it takes a hell of an ego to do this.

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Originally Posted by grndslm
how is it possible for a Black Maxx 5-gal stir plate to stir beer, yet not oxidize it? It doesn't allow the CO2 to escape??
Because all the oxygen in the fermentor is either used up or pushed out during the reproductive phase, and more oxygen is unable to get through the airlock, because of positive pressure in the vessel (due to generated CO2). In ORDER for oxygen and CO2 to push through the airlock, the pressure needs to be higher on the "source" side... how MUCH higher depends entirely on the height of the water column in the airlock.

And the pressure is almost never going to be higher on the outside than on the inside, except for rare, *brief* circumstances due to MASSIVE temperature changes. Most temp changes usually don't cause air to be pulled in as it needs to overcome the head pressure, but if desired, it can be further strengthened by either using a deeper airlock, a deep blow-off tube, or hooking it up with tubing to another CO2-filled vessel with an airlock. The last one is unnecessarily extreme for most people, but if one doesn't have a CO2 tank, it can be filled by simply connecting it to the fermentor after about 24 hours, so that it will collect the gas generated by the fermentation. This gas can even be used for oxygen-free transfers.

But yeah... starters with a typical airfoil or foam cap don't need that pressure differential for air to enter. Airlocks do. It's as simple as that. And if you take off the lid or bung in order to whirlpool, oxygen will have no problem getting in.

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Originally Posted by grndslm
Wow. That's pretty cool. I was just joking when mentioning that, but it's definitely neat.

Are there more like that? Or is that a one of a kind?
Yeah, I know you were only kidding.

But like I said, it's sold through some hombrew stores, so it's obviously not one of a kind. It's not that cheap though - I think it retails for somewhere around $180. I got mine free because I helped test the product before it went to market. It's a really nice unit though... I don't use my DIY stirplate (which can do 5-6 quart starters) anymore unless I need multiple stirs going on.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:11 AM   #84
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9 pages and i have no idea what the original poster was getting at. i will unsubscribe just as soon as i hit "post quick reply".

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Old 06-07-2012, 05:29 AM   #85
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This thread is so wrong it's not even right. The random capitalization reminds me of Dr. Bronner's soap labels.

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Old 06-07-2012, 05:31 AM   #86
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Also, that hop utilization from a boil with no extract will be laughable.

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Old 06-07-2012, 07:42 AM   #87
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Tell Smelly that I've got a good portion of the basics, but I MUST understand all the limits, or else I'll drive everyone else crazy in the process trying to understand those limits.
Are you even old enough to brew? You seem to act like an 8 year old thats not getting his way. Smelly? Really? Do a bit of research on the man you just insulted... Mike McDole’. ya, the same guy that has brewed with Vinny from Russian River, Jamal, Palmer and is know in the Craft beer industry as "God of Craft beer". Same guy that is quoted on the very book your reading about yeast. I can assure you, you will never become a good brewer with this attitude.

You keep dodging our question. Are you from Canada? Live under a bridge?
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:55 AM   #88
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- Subscription removed -
Added "grndslm" to troll list

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SILVER - BABO - "Oaked Whiskey Vanilla Porter"
SILVER - Celebrewtion - "Bourbon Vanilla Porter"
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SILVER - BABO - "Screaming Cream"
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:40 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndslm
We'll be bottling it in the next 2 or 3 days, and then drinking it 4 weeks after that. Really can't wait to see how it turns out.

Have stopped brewing until we see the results of that batch.
FWIW, I wouldn't quit brewing while you wait: it's my understanding that oxidation off-flavors can take time to develop. Meanwhile, you're losing valuable practice time. However, in the spirit of science (and not wasting money), I would brew according to the "rules" for a few months b/c we know the rules work and you can make excellent beer while waiting for the oxidation to develop (or not).
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You're talking about beer. That could have been a whole lot more fun.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:13 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Piratwolf

FWIW, I wouldn't quit brewing while you wait: it's my understanding that oxidation off-flavors can take time to develop. Meanwhile, you're losing valuable practice time. However, in the spirit of science (and not wasting money), I would brew according to the "rules" for a few months b/c we know the rules work and you can make excellent beer while waiting for the oxidation to develop (or not).
Hey man, don't tell him what to do. He NEEDS to wait - otherwise he could be throwing his money away brewing beer that *doesn't* taste like cardboard.

Why don't you tell him to wipe his ass with fifties while you're at it? If he did that, he'd never be able to get to the delicious center of TP ever again.

Edit: No, I'm not talking about tootsie pops. Who the hell eats those? Freaking disgusting.
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