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Old 12-08-2013, 11:30 PM   #11
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I haven't looked up the cohumulone content of nugget hops (as I simply don't use them because I don't like them) but between the high cohumulone of the columbus and the nugget, it could be a big factor in the harshness.

Water chemistry could play a role but if your other IIPAs have been ok, I think it's the hops combo.

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Old 12-09-2013, 02:27 PM   #12
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I'm blaming the low OG & low mash temp. You also don't list the yeast, peachy=S05? Your BU:GU Is also almost 1.5:1 pretty high for a pale. Nugget can definitely come across as somewhat harsh, I've found that tends to calm down after a couple of weeks.

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Old 12-10-2013, 12:24 AM   #13
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I'm blaming the low OG & low mash temp. You also don't list the yeast, peachy=S05? Your BU:GU Is also almost 1.5:1 pretty high for a pale. Nugget can definitely come across as somewhat harsh, I've found that tends to calm down after a couple of weeks.
Good points here. I fell into the trap of trying to make the oxymoronic "session" IPA. Big hop flavor and aroma with a low OG. I guess you might call it a super hoppy pale as well. I'm realizing that there is only so far you can go with this. Balancing the malt backbone with the hop bill is tricky enough. But pushing the limits is proving to be a learning experience.
The yeast was indeed S05. I do most of my beers with this yeast and haven't gotten the peachy notes I have heard that others get. I usually start fermentation around 63 or 64 and ramp up to 70 over the course of a week or so. Maybe this is the source of the peachyness on this brew. I'll have to search for threads on that.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:28 AM   #14
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Water chemistry could play a role but if your other IIPAs have been ok, I think it's the hops combo.
I think it might be time for a Ward Labs report! I noticed the same what I called "grainy" taste in this brew as in the last session beer I made. I'm guessing that it's showing up more in lighter, lower gravity beers. Thanks for the feedback Yooper.
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:41 AM   #15
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I fell into the trap of trying to make the oxymoronic "session" IPA. Big hop flavor and aroma with a low OG. I guess you might call it a super hoppy pale as well. I'm realizing that there is only so far you can go with this. Balancing the malt backbone with the hop bill is tricky enough. But pushing the limits is proving to be a learning experience.
If you're trying to make a "session" IPA you may try mashing higher. 148 is going to give you a much more fermentable beer, it's what I used for a boarder line IIPA/IPA recipe to good results, and possibly cause it to be thin and weak flavored. I'm actually going to brew one Wednesday and will be mashing at 158 to keep my final gravity at 1.013 or so. I'll have to let you know if it is to good results or not.
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:44 AM   #16
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Adding a touch of Honey Malt or Melanoidin Malt is also supposed to give it a stronger malt perception than it actually is.

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Old 12-10-2013, 01:59 PM   #17
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Adding a touch of Honey Malt or Melanoidin Malt is also supposed to give it a stronger malt perception than it actually is.
I've been wanting to try honey malt. This may be a good excuse to add a few ounces and see what happens.
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:50 PM   #18
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Adding a touch of Honey Malt or Melanoidin Malt is also supposed to give it a stronger malt perception than it actually is.
Honey malt is awesome. I use anything from 1/2 to a full lb in my Pale ales and IPAs regularly. Can't get enough of it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:34 AM   #19
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FWIW, I got Tasty McDole to try a Session IPA I made for NHC. He was kind enough to not spit it out, but I mashed at 158 and it was still harshly bitter at 68IBUs. He suggested that in this style the body is key (which I did ok on) and that it's wise to stay in the upper 40s for IBUs. There's only so much malt to play against the bittering.

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Old 12-12-2013, 03:59 AM   #20
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FWIW, I got Tasty McDole to try a Session IPA I made for NHC. He was kind enough to not spit it out, but I mashed at 158 and it was still harshly bitter at 68IBUs. He suggested that in this style the body is key (which I did ok on) and that it's wise to stay in the upper 40s for IBUs. There's only so much malt to play against the bittering.
Nice, what was the OG on your SIPA? I am still not so sure how comfortable I am calling a 6% beer a "session" beer. I mean, if I call it that do I fool myself into thinking I can do things like have a couple pints at lunch and still be productive for the rest of the day? But I think it could be more of a challenge to make a 4% IPA that tastes excellent and balanced than to make a good 6% IPA.

I guess one of the tricks is to get that body without having the beer end up cloyingly sweet. I like my beers nice and dry so I usually mash low. I'll have to experiment with the higher mash temps on a low OG beer like a session IPA. I was also thinking switching up my yeast would help as I mainly use S05. Something that doesn't attenuate quite as much but that still has a nice clean crisp flavor profile is what I'd be looking for. The honey/melanoidin is also a good idea I think but I haven't experimented with these grains yet.
I entered my hop additions into Beersmith with the new updated version's steep/whirlpool field. I set it for 30% utilization for a 30 min hopstand and it calculated out to about 100 IBUs. A far cry from the upper 40s and more than any 1.056 beer should be able to carry I know. But I have to say, now that it's a little more carbed up it's not as bad as I first thought. Still way too bitter, but the flavor changed and seems like it kind of "merged" into something more cohesive. Self induced Lupulin Threshold Shift!
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