Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Diacetyl Rest the lazy way?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-28-2008, 01:48 PM   #1
GilaMinumBeer
In yo' garage, steelin' yo parts.
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
GilaMinumBeer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 48,078
Liked 4822 Times on 4426 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default Diacetyl Rest the lazy way?

Hello my name is Gila, I have been a zymurgist obsessive for nearly 3 years now, and I am a lazy brewer!

I mean I shouldn't even own a hydrometer, let alone 2. I use them so infrequently I have to read the inserts to remember the calibration point (is it 60 or .....).

Don't get me wrong. During brewday I am a refractometerizing fool. pH, water chemistry, rest temp control, conversion, all things I obsess about while brewing but after the wort is oxygenerated, the yeast is swimming, and the whole party is in the cool dark, I go all torpid. Generally, after fermentation has commenced, I may not even look at the fermenter for another month.

With Ales, this is no problem. My Ale have even improved since I have learned to just let them be but, the lagers, oh the lagers how they torment me.

I have been doing this long enough to know what I should be doing. That is, check the progress with the hydro and when they get to about 70% pull em out for a D-rest. But alas, I rarely even think about them until well after fermentation has completed, the yeast have gone dormant (mostly), a flocc'd themselve gently out of the way. Thus, even tho' I do pull the beer out to room temp and let it set for another 7 days, I still end up buttered.

The issue isn't a dis-interest in the beer, I have no problems with checking in on the beer periodically. Nor with periodically pulling a small sample to taste. But, for some reason I loath my hydrometer. The finding it, sanitizing, the wasted wort, cleaning, drying, and putting away of it all.

So, I ask is there a general correlation of time in the chill that works on average as a countdown to D day?

We all know the 1-2-3 method for Ales and have adopted some manner of this to our own berewery but what for Lagers?

How do you guage the beers preparedness without the Hydro? Do you watch the Krausen? Taste it through the greenery?

Thoughts, comments, welcome.

__________________
GilaMinumBeer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 02:15 PM   #2
TeleTwanger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 693
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

The way I understand D-Rests is that there's 2 ways to do them . One way is to just leave the beer in the primary longer @ primary temps. The other is to raise the temp post-Krausen and leave it for 3-7 days before dropping the temp again and then racking/secondary. For Ales I ferment a little lower than room temp and then rest at room temp, or I just blanket the pimary for 1 week post-Krausen.

Sounds like you are not pulling you Lagers soon enough for a D-rest. There's no reason a Lager yeast should not be done before 2 weeks.

I only use my hydrometer after I rack, I don't like checking progress. Give the beer enough time at the right temp and it will be fine. I just look to see if the Krausen has fallen and if there is still a little bit of swirling going on then I know its time for the big D-rest.

__________________
__________________________________________________
Primary: empty
Secondary: DogFish 60 Clone
Up next: The Bestist Bitter
Bottled: Blackout IPA


"Ooo Pretzels and Bier!"-Heidi Klum

TeleTwanger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 02:26 PM   #3
GilaMinumBeer
In yo' garage, steelin' yo parts.
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
GilaMinumBeer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 48,078
Liked 4822 Times on 4426 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default

2 weeks eh. I guess I have always been gun shy with my Lagers considering I usually ferment them at the very bottom of the yeast range. When I was only brewing Ales I checked them religiously and that got old, quick. Eventually, I learned a timing average based on the previolus plethora of readings. I never did that for the lagers and have been plagued with the slightest hints of butter.

I think you are right my friend. They have set too long and the yeast are generally pooped out before I pull for the rest. But, you do raise an interesting point.

If the one method is the extended primary, then what is extended. Considering that I, on avereage, double the beers time in primary and that is not working completely are you saying that I should have it go 6 weeks or, 8?

__________________
GilaMinumBeer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 02:53 PM   #4
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 32 Times on 27 Posts

Default

I brew lagers quite a bit (usually every other batch) and I don't use my hydrometer to check for a D-rest. Usually I don't need D-rests (I pitch the yeast cold), but I do them anyway because I like to reduce any potential for off-flavors. I ferment at the low end of the range (49-51dF) and I've never had a lager that wasn't ready for transferring to secondary at the 2-week mark (including D-rest). All of my lagers are around the 1.050 OG mark, so maybe that has something to do with it.

All I do is wait until the krausen starts to fall (about 1/4 to 1/2 fallen) and then bump the temp up to D-rest temp... no hydrometer or anything other than looking at it and turning up the temp controller (and possibly leaving the chest freezer lid open for a while to help with the temp increase). I usually do my D-rests around 60dF. The only time I ever thought I tasted diacetyl (slippery) when racking to secondary, it was gone in the finished product. So if it was there, it went away during lagering.

It's best to get lager beer off of the primary yeast in a timely manner because if the beer sits on this for too long, it can pick up compounds that result in off-flavors.

__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 03:08 PM   #5
balto charlie
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
balto charlie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Md
Posts: 824
Liked 9 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Jamil and Palmer recommend a method similar to Narziss fermentation, where the first 2/3 of fermentation is done at cold temps and the last 1/3 is done warmer. The reasoning is to reduce esters production during the most active fermentation period (beginning) and increase yeast activity near the end to rid the batch of undesirable compounds. Also temp control is important. Chill wort to 44F, rack from cold brbeak,pitch yeast, put intl fermentation chamber, which should be set to warm slowly for 36-48 hrs to 50F.
DIACETYL REST: during last days of fermentation. They determine when airlock activity NOTICEABLY SLOWS, about 5th or 6th day.
So I determine that the entire fermentation is complete in 10 days. Seems fast???? Your 7 day timing is close. Maybe you need to chill the wort to 44F?? then bring it back up to 50F. They also recommend that the diacetyl rest be 10degrees higher than fermentation temps.
I've been reading a lot about it lately. I hope to larger this winter. We'll see. Charlie

__________________
Drinking Oktoberfest, Firestone Walker Union Jack IPA, Brown ale, Pale Ale
Conditioning: Firestone Wookey Black IPA clone, Brown ale
Secondary
Primary Evil Twin Strong Ale
On Deck ESB, Belgian Dubbel
balto charlie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 03:08 PM   #6
GilaMinumBeer
In yo' garage, steelin' yo parts.
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
GilaMinumBeer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 48,078
Liked 4822 Times on 4426 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default

Thanks Mens...

I will just have to pay more attention to Krausen stage then. I lager half of every batch I brew and have always moved it when the Krausen has fallen. Have yet to have an undrinkable Lager but they have always had a tinge of butter.

I typically ferment with S-23 but occasionally switch to a more specific liquid.

How long till you start looking at Krausen? 1 week? 1.5?

__________________
GilaMinumBeer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 03:18 PM   #7
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 32 Times on 27 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer View Post
How long till you start looking at Krausen? 1 week? 1.5?
It varies with lag time, etc., but I usually start paying more attention when it's getting near the one week mark. I guess I don't really think about it too much. I still get excited about fermentation and check my primary fermentation everyday just to get a "status report".
__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 03:22 PM   #8
GilaMinumBeer
In yo' garage, steelin' yo parts.
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
GilaMinumBeer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 48,078
Liked 4822 Times on 4426 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default

Yeah. Me, not so much. Once it's in the box it's nearly forgotten about. I really should go to better bottles, at least then all I would have to do is lift the lid to check. As it is now, I have to fight the bucket lid to sneak a peek.

Ironic how those work. Damned near impossible to get to seal initially, but then when you need a quick status report you almost have to employ the jaws of life.

So, from here on out after a week in the dark I will start checking the Krausen level. When it has fallen noticebly raise the temp to 60 or move vessel to room temp (sit depend).

Check. Thanks

__________________

GilaMinumBeer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 03:27 PM   #9
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 32 Times on 27 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer View Post
I really should go to better bottles, at least then all I would have to do is lift the lid to check.
Ahh, buckets... that would explain it. I've always used BBs and took it for granted that you had see-through fermenters. I would probably react the same way to uncooperative bucket lids!
__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-28-2008, 03:32 PM   #10
balto charlie
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
balto charlie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Md
Posts: 824
Liked 9 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by menschmaschine View Post
Ahh, buckets... that would explain it. I've always used BBs and took it for granted that you had see-through fermenters. I would probably react the same way to uncooperative bucket lids!
w/ buckets look at he airlocks
__________________
Drinking Oktoberfest, Firestone Walker Union Jack IPA, Brown ale, Pale Ale
Conditioning: Firestone Wookey Black IPA clone, Brown ale
Secondary
Primary Evil Twin Strong Ale
On Deck ESB, Belgian Dubbel
balto charlie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What else does a diacetyl rest do? menschmaschine Brew Science 13 02-12-2012 01:37 PM
Diacetyl-rest Axegod All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 08-16-2007 11:12 PM
Diacetyl rest now or later? Levers101 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 06-01-2007 08:13 PM
diacetyl rest? PilotBMP General Techniques 7 11-08-2006 04:33 PM
Diacetyl Rest Glibbidy General Techniques 10 08-30-2006 01:18 AM