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Old 01-31-2007, 01:57 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoXJ13
I really see no difference in your numbers, although I respect you for the effort put into this experiment... A difference of .003 is really nothing in the large sense of things...
I agree on sample #1 and 2 being nearly identical, but my current conclusion is that #3 was the stronger ferment at 43 hours. Depending on your hydrometer, the scale can be such that 1.019 to 1.016 is about 3/8ths of an inch.


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Originally Posted by ColoradoXJ13
...I have been seeing a lot of non-scientific stuff on this board, a lot of speculation, and a lot of opinions that are unfoundd. ...and as clayof2day said, you need to repeat this experiment a bunch of times...
I agree with the first point in that a lot of people take what they hear or read a little too seriously. I was hoping to give a little more validity to some of the claims and take away from others by doing this simple test. I may repeat the test myself using better methods and just for the sake of repeatability and confirmation of results but it would be a better if others try the same experiment (confirmation of peers and all).


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Originally Posted by ColoradoXJ13
Personally, as far as my 'brewery' goes, I am going to try to spend as little money and keep it as simple as possible, and this includes pitching and shaking. But then again, boys love their toys, I drive a jeep with well over $5000 in modifications that are totally not necessary...to each their own.

That being said, I am not even close to hitting most attenuation numbers, i think the LME from my shop sucks, but I am still going to bottle it when SG's are steady and bottles will not explode.
I think we all want to keep it reasonably cheap and simple, but we all want to improve our methods otherwise we wouldn't spend so much time on this board. It's interesting that you decided that your attenuation is the fault of your LME. I suppose you can try another brand or go to DME, but then there are other variables to consider. What if 5 brewers repeated my experiment and it was a conslusion for all that O2 injected wort always finished with the lowest gravity? Would you buy a tank?
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Old 01-31-2007, 02:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D*Bo
You're also supposed to get beter results (more o2 absorption) by having the o2 bubbles barely break the surface. By having a lower pressure and smaller bubbles, they stay in contact with the liquid longer allowing more to be absorbed. Also the vigorus bubbling at the surface knocks gas out of solution lowering the total disolved gasses.
I'll buy that. If I determine that O2 injection is indeed better in that it attenuates better than other methods, I will buy a smaller micron airstone. I've been slumming it with the $1 blue stones from Petsmart since I wanted this system to be almost free. It might even be nice to put a 3-way splitter on the end and run 3 airstones, to even further distribute the column of bubbles.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:27 AM   #43
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If you recall, I posted that at 45 hours after pitching (remember the OG was 1.050):

#1 = 1.018 (64% attenuation)
#2 = 1.019 (62% attenuation)
#3 = 1.016 (68% attenuation)

After 70 hours, the SGs are:

#1 = 1.016 (68% attenuation)
#2 = 1.015 (70% attenuation)
#3 = 1.013 (74% attenuation)

This time I had my wife read the hydro and I didn't tell her what I expected it to be, nor does she care ;-)

These probably fall inline with what everyone expects and that's a good thing. Let's just assume I was able to repeat these results and O2 always proved to attenuate a couple points more than shaking. How many of you folks are running out to get the O2 bottle? Maybe you don't like dry beers, but then I wouldn't suggest Safale-04 for you either.

I would still suggest the O2 or at the very least use a filter with an air pump. They both have the advantage in that they don't expose your wort to potentially infecting air.

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Old 02-01-2007, 01:10 AM   #44
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Excellent. A 6% change in attenuation is quite a bit. Looking at in terms of absolute conversion, O2 was 9% better. Since I already have the air pump & filter, I'll probably stick with them. When the pump dies, I'll consider O2. One stone is probably plenty, given the circulation of the wort during the process.

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Old 02-01-2007, 03:02 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBrewer
What LHBS do you shop at for your LME? Have you tried DME?
What's Brewin' in Boulder. Yes, I did one with DME and hit the mid-range of the attenuation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M
What if 5 brewers repeated my experiment and it was a conslusion for all that O2 injected wort always finished with the lowest gravity? Would you buy a tank?
no, because I really doubt one could taste a difference in .003 SG points, or at least I couldn't
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Old 02-01-2007, 08:31 AM   #46
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Great experiment Bobby_M. You gave us all more information than we had before. Because of that it was a huge success.

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Old 02-01-2007, 09:48 AM   #47
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Great result and probably as expected. Are you going to take further readings
I think they may change further over the next 72 hours.

The one thing that I have taken from this personally is that It backs up my feelings that I have no need to aerate/oxygenate further than I do.
I'm all for the KISS approach and will cut out any steps that are not detrimental to my brews. I like my beer to have a malty sweetness and body. I don't want blow offs and am happy to leave it in primary for
5 to 7 days.

These types of experiments are great for dispelling myths.

Thank you for the effort you are putting in.

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Old 02-01-2007, 11:17 AM   #48
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If you need someone to get rid of the "leftovers" from your experiment, then I'd like to volunteer my services.

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Old 02-01-2007, 12:22 PM   #49
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Nice experiment Bobby M. The video was hilarious! Any difference in the taste of the finished beers? I suppose you would expect the first one to throw off more fruity esters.

I actually thought the pitching rate was too high to produce such different FGs, but the results speak for themselves.

Quote:
no, because I really doubt one could taste a difference in .003 SG points, or at least I couldn't
I bet you could, if you tasted them next to each other. I reckon it would be quite noticeable. That's about a 0.4% change in ABV.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:52 PM   #50
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Since they've only been fermenting about 3.5 days, I'm not quite ready to do taste comparisons. I plan to test the gravity one more time tomorrow just to see if that's where these samples are going to finish. If they all eventually hit the same FG, the conclusion might be that unaerated wort just takes LONGER, but I suspect the variance between the samples will stay fixed.

I did take a pull off the sample on #3 and it was delicious. Funny thing is, it's just a can of Mr Beer LME and some Cascade. Note: since the volume of each is so low, I've been carefully sanitizing my test tube and hydro so that I can return each sample back into the fermenter. I know the science is bad, but I still want to DRINK this batch after all the testing is done.

I wanted to make sure everyone understands that my intent of this experiment was not to taunt or discredit anyone who doesn't care about O2 or wants to keep their brewing as simple as possible. I acknowledge that amazing beers can be made with the most meager equipment.

Ayrton, If they made 2 oz bottles, I'd share a bit with everyone who's responded but they don't so I guess I'm gonna have to muscle the results down on my own. Dang.

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