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Old 01-30-2007, 03:18 PM   #11
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Orfy,
I don't know what kind of porn you watch but I thought that was more of a corporate ethics training video track. I had access to more tracks that were more 70's porn slanted so maybe I should have gone with those.

Right though. I'd call #1 maybe the tortoise in the tortoise and the hare. In theory, it should ferment all the way out but probably take a long time to do so. It's far from vigorous.

If the gravity at the 24 hour mark (and even the FG at say 1 week) are exactly the same between #2 and #3, I think the conclusion is leaning towards O2 systems being somewhat unnecessary. Of course, if you're doing 10 gallon batches, shaking the crap out of the fermenter might be a problem.

I'm wondering if 45 minutes of boiling was enough to fully deplete the oxygen. Then I wonder if 2 minutes of O2 is really getting the most out of the process. I usually hit my 5g batches with 2 minutes on, 5 minute rest, another 2 minutes of O2 on. Also, maybe #2 started quickly because of how well the yeast was dispersed througout the wort from all the shaking. In other words, would a quick shake of the #3 after O2 injection make a big difference?

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Old 01-30-2007, 03:46 PM   #12
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GREAT video! I watched it twice! It makes me want to do that with every batch of mine so I get to see the magic happen.

I'm looking forward to the gravity results.

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Old 01-30-2007, 03:57 PM   #13
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Can you believe I'm only showing every 10th frame of what I captured? I set the webcam to take one frame every 10 seconds so that's 6 a minute, 360 an hour, 8640 per day. It was just taking too long to import and render that many frames so I grabbed every 10th instead. Even with that I'm showing you 864 frames. At one frame per second it would be a 14 minute clip. After rendering I sped it up x5 and rerendered to make it under 3 minutes. By the way, I used a shareware version of Flix for the timelapse. I don't know exactly where I found it. I did all my post in Ulead video studio 9.

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Old 01-30-2007, 05:11 PM   #14
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I think the video shows exactly what is expected from a growth / fermentation perspective...

Yeast in #1 likely depleats the dissolved O2 first, but the resulting yeast growth is not sufficient to show much fermentation activity after O2 depletion. Resulting fermentation is slow.

Yeast in #2 depleats the dissolved O2 prior to yeast in #3 (less O2 in #2). Yeast growth in #2 is adequate to produce a fairly vigorous fermentation.

#3 shows the longest lag, (due to the extended respiration phase / high dissolved O2 concentration). Yeast population in #3 is much greater than in #2 as shown by the extremely vigorous fermentation.

You mentioned that the SG of #2 and #3 were identical when you measured. When did you take the measurement and what was the value? I'd be interested to see how it compares to the FG. Regardless, I think it's safe to say that pure O2 is not required for a vigorous fermentation.

As a follow-up to your experiment, I would be interested to see the time-laps on the same three bottles (same aeration procedures) pitched with a starter instead of rehydrated yeast.

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Old 01-30-2007, 05:31 PM   #15
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Ok, so this first pass at it took quite a lot of effort. Anyone else inclined to try some additional versions?

I suppose I could have split a 5 gallon batch to 7 different 1gal fermenters and tried all kinds of variables.

Dry pitched into wort, half cell count pitch, double pitch, starter pitch, liquid yeast without starter. I also avoided an airstone driven by a pump because I just don't have one. You could also do longer boils, longer O2 injection (to ensure saturation) etc.

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Old 01-30-2007, 05:48 PM   #16
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Awesome video and awesome experiment (I have a science background so this stuff really appeals to me!).

I have a two comments worth considering:

1. It will be very interesting to see the attenuation rates -- that may lead to slightly different information than the video. But I think the visible rates of krausening are quite interesting on their own -- I am surprised that the oxygenated fermenter didn't perform noticably better than the shaken fermenter (but see next comment).

2. Your yeast pitching rates were actually pretty high. Aeration/02 conditioning is likely most needed when pitched yeast quantities are on the low side (e.g., may be more relevant to pitching liquid yeast, particularly directly from a smack pack instead of from a starter). Lots of O2 in the wort promotes an extended aerobic phase which will then promote higher yeast propagation (i.e. increase the total quantity of yeast). There may be little apparent difference between the shaken and oxygenated fermenters because both had plenty of yeast to begin with. An interesting twist on this experiment would be to repeat it using lower quantities of liquid yeast to see if the fermentation rates show a more marked difference.

I also wanted to add that I loved the videography. Nice time-lapse rate. Nice use of the rubber gloves as a visual aid to examine CO2 production.

Thanks for sharing this with us all!

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Old 01-30-2007, 06:20 PM   #17
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Awesome experiment! I love time-lapse videos.

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Old 01-30-2007, 06:24 PM   #18
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If you ever repeat the experiment, another option that I would like to see is the starter only aeration suggested here.

Great work - loved the video!!

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Old 01-30-2007, 06:50 PM   #19
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Thanks guys. I have some more ideas in response to flyguy's comments.

Given the assumption that yeast's exposure to O2 creates a reproductive cycle and delays fermentation, I think there's a threshold where pitching rates and O2 saturation stop working to your advantage and start becoming a detriment. Hear me out. If you pitch a starter with a huge cell count, one in which they are fully capable of reaching max attenuation, exposure to O2 will only cause a longer lag.

On the other hand, if you pitching rate is on the other end of the spectrum like a non starter liquid pitch, the lower cell count will likely cause a low attenuation. That is, each yeast cell is likely only capable of converting a fixed amount of sugar before it dies. The short lag time may give you false hope but it's only because there was no reproductive cycle.

I'm making this conclusion prior to taking additional SG readings (of course I can modify this later), but I think:

1. Very high pitch rates (starter) perform well in oxygen depleated wort.

2. Medium pitch rates (dry yeast) perform well in moderately oxyenated wort (shaken fermenter, airpump, etc). If oxygen is too depleted, attenuation may suffer. That's not to say that oxygen rich wort would be a problem, the lag would just be longer than necessary to reach the same full attenuation.

3. Low pitch rates (liquid yeasts without starter) perform well in O2 saturated wort. Cell count is first increased and as O2 is consumed, the ferments begin with an adequate cell count to reach full attenuation.

I'll call that my theory. Maybe this one experiment is not quite enough to prove all points. As mentioned above, I think a single 11g pack of dry yeast is a moderate pitch rate for a 5 gal batch so half a pack in a 2 gal batch really is on the upper end, but probably lower than a starter.

JCC, I only took an OG from this batch before I split it into the different fermenters. It was 1.050. I plan to take an intermediate reading tonight at around 45 hours after pitching.

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Old 01-30-2007, 07:19 PM   #20
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Good work. I'm not trying to diminish anything here. But I do have to laugh about the prospect of...

The definitive aeration/oxygenation experiment II
The definitive aeration/oxygenation experiment III
...

or would that be definitiver, definitivest, more definitiver?

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