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Old 05-05-2013, 01:13 AM   #31
CDGoin
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Great thread.. I started another..but figured I would go ahead and wake up this thread and kill the other. Better to keep all the info in one place. (BTW might want to make this a sticky.. it wasnt easy to find)

I wanted to do this partially for my dad, and partially for my liver (Darn Doctor)

Anyway, I am doing this with my MarZzen Lager ( Not quite an Oktoberfest, not quite a Belgian quad)
I am bottling this weekend.

In my experiment, I noticed something. As soon as my beer got to about 80 it started to evaporate. So I kept my temps @ 140 for 45 min, and then went to 180 for 30 and took two samples along the way. Remember we are getting Alcohol out of solution.

I think if you boil longer and lower you save more of the flavors and such and still burn off the alcohol. Reason is the bottom of the pan is well over 190 degrees. The overall solution though is not.. So if you stir regularly you should be able to get most of it out. Also there are factors of pressure and such to consider.

Anyway, when my Current MarZzen Ale is off the yeast, I will split into a few batchs and try the oven, stove (slow), and stove (fast and high temp) and then send samples out to be tested for ABV. May even try dry hops and no hops..

I really think there is a market for GOOD NA Craft Brews.. just which someone would make one.

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Old 05-08-2013, 08:35 PM   #32
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Remember that while you're reducing the alcohol, there's actually a lot more that's left than you think. Alcohol likes water so much that it'll form an azeotrope, in which you can't change the % alcohol even by distilling (which is basically what you're doing here). You will reduce the ABV, but this wouldn't be an appropriate beer to give to somebody that's a recovering alcoholic or avoids alcohol for religious reasons.

This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by clayof2day View Post
Just so you know, as you heat it, it should level off at the boiling point for the ethanol. Even if you add more heat, as the ethanol evaporates, the temperature will not change. You should just be able to monitor temperature, and once it starts to climb above the boiling point for ethanol, you know it is theoretically all gone.
is definitely not true. Beer is a mixture of alcohol, sugar, and water. Alcohol will lower the boiling point slightly, sugar will increase it slightly. My guess is it will still boil very close to 212 (depending on altitude of course). The total solution will absorb heat until it reaches the boiling temp of the mixture, and at that point any extra heat is lost in the latent heat of evaporation. It won't magically stop getting hotter just because one of the components in the mixture is more volatile than another.

Even after an hour of simmering 25% of the alcohol will still remain.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....in-most-cases/
http://homecooking.about.com/library...lalcohol12.htm
http://www.ochef.com/165.htm
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:10 PM   #33
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Hmm.. good to know. So while not a true NA.. should still get to negligible levels.

If you make a 5% beer - 25% left would be 1.25% low enough to be considered NA by the guidelines I found. Which read 1% is the NA limit.. BUT the caveat is they round doan and up to whole numbers.. so 1.49% qualifies as 1%. That said.. it looks as if it would be difficult to get a 8-10% beer into NA level.. but it could become a "Light" Alcohol Beer or some other category.

It does seem to imply though that to avoid extra ABV, I should finally bite the bullet and get a way to force carb my beer instead of using yeast to do it for me.

Anyway, I will be practicing with various methods, times and such on the next few batchs. I also want to see what happens to different styles. As maybe some are not affected as much as others. Lastly, how this affect hop character, and how much dry hopping can recover it. Be real interesting to have a NA IPA, NA Russian Imperial, NA Belgian Quad, etc..

So I will try these methods:

1) Heat to 180 hold for set time, then bring to full boil for 15 minutes or so

2) Simply heat to 180 and hold for a set time

3) Simmer at 120 and hold for a set time with a spike to 180 for a set time.

4) Simmer at 140 and hold for set time

5) Put in oven @ 180 for a set time

I will then send samples for lab testing..

This will tell me affects on:

Flavors in general

ABV in general

In flavor vs ABV

I am not sure which beer to start with.. I think I will start with my basic Belgian style due to the low hops anyway, It has a big flavor, very malty, yet light enough as well to be a good beer, it also should be easier to get some of the hops back in dry hoping. Also its what I like and what I make a lot of.

I am hoping that a long low simmer will do the trick.. because I expect the results will tell me the hotter you go to force out the alcohol, the more you will affect the flavor and loss of hops.

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Old 05-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #34
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Subscribing. Hope to see some cool results in the future!

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Old 05-10-2013, 08:01 PM   #35
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I'm interested in hearing the results as well.... I've wondered if you were to hop as you do the "reducing boil" if it would help with the flavor or body?

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Old 05-11-2013, 11:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepyemt View Post
I'm interested in hearing the results as well.... I've wondered if you were to hop as you do the "reducing boil" if it would help with the flavor or body?
Good call.. I will look into that after the first round to see first how much the hops are affected by the different techniques. A few of the judges in our local home brew club will be doing the tasting.. as they are more "Calibrated" than I
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:21 PM   #37
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^

You must have gotten a blood test recently and he gave you ALT/AST readings that show increased liver enzymes?

I cut back to 4 a day for a month and they went back to normal AST: 24 ALT: 23 Before that mine were AST: 91 ALT: 89 so I had to do some N/A beer, and this area sucks when it comes to N/A. Only choices here are O'Douls & Busch N/A.........

Shame some livers are like ours........I read Lemmy from the UK band Motorhead drinks a 5th of Jack Daniels per day and his liver is just as good as a new borns........lucky prick.......

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Old 05-15-2013, 11:53 AM   #38
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Not there yet.. but I am sure I will be in the near future.

Got lots of testing to do.. starting with the sampling of the first test run from my braggot. The bragott came out very nice.. and I know the NA version is carbed.. So if this test run is promising the full test of the different techniques will happen in a week or two when my current beer is ready.

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Old 05-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #39
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The beer will boil somewhere between the boiling point of water and alcohol, just go to the boiling point and let it rock, as the alcohol boils off the boiling point will go up until its almost all gone (close to boiling point of water). This is basically the same as distilling without capturing the alcohol that is evaporating, and that's a darn shame. Anyhow, you will also loose some water with the alcohol, so I would suggest back-adding some amount of filtered water, to taste, this will dilute the remaining alcohol even further.

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Old 05-25-2013, 09:19 AM   #40
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Man I think this is awesome! I have a buddy that lives a life clean and sober. I love talking my hobby with him and he always said I should brew him a n/a beer. I just never knew how. You have motivated me to attempt it for the sakes of my poor buddy that does not get the head buzz that I so very much love! I call that support!

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