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Old 08-28-2009, 12:41 PM   #11
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Bottling cold beer will lead to overcarbonation if you don't a) reduce your priming sugar or b) de-gas the cold beer somehow.

I bottled a pale and an amber cold... no gushers, but I have to drink them out of at least a 22 ounce glass to hold the foam...

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Old 08-28-2009, 12:46 PM   #12
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Even Palmer's Carbonation Nomograph shows the affects of temp on carbonation and the amount of sugar needed at bottlig time based on temp. Like I said if you use the carbing feature on beersmith (and I assume other software) it always asks for the temp of the beer, in order to figure out the amount of sugar you need at bottling time.

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Figure 65- Nomograph for determining more precise amounts of priming sugar. To use the nomograph, draw a line from the temperature of your beer through the Volumes of CO2 that you want, to the scale for sugar. The intersection of your line and the sugar scale gives the weight of either corn or cane sugar in ounces to be added to five gallons of beer to achieve the desired carbonation level.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:57 PM   #13
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This isn't making any sense to me. I’d think that if you put the standard amount of priming sugar into chilled beer and then warmed the bottles to carbing pressure, you get the same carbonation level as if it were warm when added. I’d think that the yeast would eat that amount of sugar and produce the same amount of CO2 from it. That chart is wacked. According to it, if your beer is at 32 degrees when you bottle it, you don’t have to add any priming sugar to get 2 volumes.

Edit:
And I'd have to question how much CO2 stays in suspension in a non pressurized container. Ever leave a soda or beer in the fridge with the lid off?
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:23 PM   #14
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I think I see the problem here. All the charts and information are assuming a certain amount of residual carbonation left over after fermentation. I think the temperature that they are referring to is the temperature that the wort was fermented at. If you had a lager at 48 degrees and then bottled at that temperature as compared to a Belgian fermented at 75 degrees and bottled at 75. Once fermentation is complete, I don’t think that you will put more CO2 in suspension just by chilling the beer.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by AnOldUR View Post
carbonation left over after I think the temperature that they are referring to is the temperature that the wort was fermented at. .
Nope you're not the first one to be wrong about that...a lot of us, including me have gotten it wrong before...Palmer is saying the temperature of your beer. He did not say Temperature fermented at...that has no bearing whatsoever on how much co2 can be held.

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Accurately Calculating Sugar Additions for Carbonation - German Brewing Techniques

Accurately calculating the carbonation is a great exercise for working with apparent and true (or real) attenuations as well as working with the extract % or Plato scale. The latter is not essential, but makes the calculations more intuitive.

The final carbonation of bottle conditioned beer depends on the CO2 present in the beer at bottling time and the CO2 that will be generated during bottle conditioning.

The amount of CO2 already in the beer can be determined based on the CO2 head-space pressure and the temperature of the beer. It can be determined by using Carbonation Tables. These tables show the equilibrium of CO2 content that exists for a given CO2 pressure and beer temperature.

The amount of CO>sub>2</sub> created by bottle conditioning is based on the amount of sugar that is fermented. Each gram of fermentable extract is fermented into equal parts (by weight) of alcohol and CO2 (this is not exactly true, but close enough for this calculation).
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Re: Carbonation, sugar and time
Follow the calculators that are based on temperature. I usually take my keg out of the chiller the day before and let it warm up to room temperature for the next day's bottling and then I add a little more sugar because the keg does vent when I open it up.
And there's a whole bunch of threads on here discussing it as well...including the one somewhere that I thought the same as you and had it cleared up.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by YooperBrew View Post
I'd either consult a priming table, and prime accordingly, or let it warm back up.

Cold liquids "hold" onto co2 better than warm liquids, so when you bottle a cold liquid you reduce the priming sugar added, since there is already some residual carbonation in there.

If it were me, I'd let it warm up overnight (and let it settle after being moved) and then bottle it tomorrow.
AnOldUR, Yoop sums it up more clearly than anyone....
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:00 PM   #17
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Start around post 11 on here, this clears alot up.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ques...9/#post1069117

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Old 08-28-2009, 03:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
AnOldUR, Yoop sums it up more clearly than anyone....
I will agree with her, that "Cold liquids hold onto co2 better than warm liquids," but I having trouble with the idea that chilling a liquid will add co2. I think that the chart that you referenced is a base line of volumes after fermentation is complete. In a closed vessel like a keg, co2 will dissipate out of the liquid if you raise the temperature, and it will be reabsorbed if chilled back to it's original temperature. But in an open vessel, like a carboy with an airlock, it's gone forever. Chilling it will not increase the volumes of co2, but it will remain constant at what you started with.


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Old 08-28-2009, 04:10 PM   #19
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Revvy, did you read more of the link that you referenced?

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tankdeer
01/08/09 12:13 PM
Re: Carbonation, sugar and time
If fermentation was done when you cold crashed, then you should probably calculate based on your ferm temp. Ie, CO2 is no longer being produced by the yeast so there is no more CO2 to dissolve into solution when you chill it down.

Rob B
01/09/09 01:42 AM
Re: Carbonation, sugar and time
Yeah, I always use my fermentation temperature even if I cold crash and carbonation has been right on every time.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldUR View Post
Revvy, did you read more of the link that you referenced?
But I think those guys are as confused as I used to be, and you are now.


It doesn't make sense that it would be based on fermentation temp. That's really has little relevance to the beers ability to hold or not hold co2 a month later at bottling time. It shouldn't matter because if the beer changes temps (which it does) itlets go or absorbse more co2. Like when a fermenter suddenly starts releasing more co2 if it gets warmer or sucks in the sanitization solution out of the airlock if it gets cooler. If you have a two piece airlock you can see the co2 variable swing back and forth between the two chambers, and that has to be related to the temp of the fermenter.

Your beer is constantly moving and shifting temp....But at bottling time you need to know EXACTLY where your beer is at in terms of how much co2 it is going to be able to absorb THEN. At THAT moment you take a snapshot and determine the gravity of the beer and it's temp. And that's when you determine how much sugar you need...NOT the condition of the beer way back then.

Don't forget the beer is going to be carbonating at about the "room" temp the fluid is. SO it is even more logical that you would calculate the amount of co2 at that temp by letting the beer get to the ambient temp, and then bottling.

It intrinsically makes more sense to me that you calculate it based on the condition of the beer at the moment you are choosing to bottle it

Like I said, look at the other threads and you will see that the general consensus and most folks who carb to style using beersmith are calculating the temp of the beer at bottling time and figuring it out from there. If you have beersmith take a look at the part of the program that allows you to carb to style for each recipe....

I'm not going to debate it with you, because honestly, this hits the limit of my uderstanding of the science of this stuff .....maybe starting a thread in the science section and have the Kais and the other eggheads (and I am paying them a compliment) over there can tell you what is right. Like I said, I thought your way, but I was convinced by others, and it seems to make more sense to me this way...and therefore that is what I do.....and it's worked for me perfectly.
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