Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!
View Poll Results: What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.
I've done it and I liked it just fine! 82 11.34%
I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques. 20 2.77%
I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again! 4 0.55%
I've never done it, but it is on my list! 538 74.41%
I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind. 79 10.93%
Voters: 723. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-29-2007, 05:37 PM   #51
Poindexter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Poindexter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: interior Alaska
Posts: 1,210
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wortmonger
Right on, keep us informed of your ferment at 5 psi.
If I was using Yellow Nottingham and just an airlock, I would not be worried about overflow gunk coming out the airlock.

I hope if Safale 05 was weven more aggressive than Yellow Notti I would have heard about it already.

I do have a stick-on thermometer on the side of my primary-ing Cornelius. When the temp and pressure start to rise later this afternoon I am going to stand the keg in a kitchensink, dump a bag of ice in the sink around the keg, leave the spunding vavle set at 5psi and hope for the best.

Like I said, unless Salfale 05 is some special forces kinda yeast I would be fine with an airlock, so with a less aggressive yeast and 5psi on the headspace I think I'll be OK.
__________________
Poindexter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-29-2007, 05:40 PM   #52
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,141
Liked 28 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Good, I was just cautiously pesimistic, lol

__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-30-2007, 06:01 PM   #53
Poindexter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Poindexter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: interior Alaska
Posts: 1,210
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default First ferment notes

I am going to put all my notes from my first fermentation under pressure here. Editing stuff back into this post keeps all the observations in one place, and keeps from bumping the trhead over and over, so every one wins. Right now I am 24 hours in, so quick recap:

In primary ferment keg #1 I have four gallons (give or take a quart) of 1.050 steep/ extract English Pale Ale. In keg number 2 is one gallon of RO water, so I have two Cornies tied up right now, but my batch size is five gallons, with a virtual OG of 1.040.

It looked like I had plenty of head space as I pitched Safale 05 into keg #1.

The two kegs are connected to each other, grey post on keg #1 with four gallons fermenting to black post on keg #2 with one gallon of water carbonating. They are connected with 10 feet of 3/16" ID line. Both kegs and the line have been pressure tested to 59psi.

The spunding valve is on the grey post of keg #2, set at 5psi to start.

After pitching the yeast I pushed CO2 from a supply tank into the system to seal the kegs. I pushed in the black post on keg #2, so all (most of) the wort should be out of the spear and at the party.

Over the first 12 hours the system pressure seeped slowly down as the temp crept up, the CO2 dissolved into the liquid and the yeast were lagging.

At aproximately pitch + 12 hours the fermenter temp was up to 70°F and the spunding vavle was showing zero psi. I put keg #1 in a kitchen sink with three pounds of ice, and about a gallon of water; purged the black post on keg #1 with CO2 to 10psi for I think the third time, and went to bed.

This morning, pitch plus 24 hours, the temp was at "64-66-68" on the stick on, the ice was melted, the spunding valve is showing 5psi. I am adding ice to the sink one pound at a time to keep the temperature stable. When my ice rate slows down I'll start upping the pressure.

At this time there is no visible vapor in the transfer line, never mind head foam:

{will insert pic in a day or two}

The other thing I notice, big time, is the scent. You know how you can lean over the air lock of an actively fermenting pale ale and get a big hit of floral hops? Not with this system. What I have in my apartment right now is a heady roasty malty grainy goodness vapor in little pockets here and there. I bet the water in the bottom of keg #2 is trapping some highly volatile hop somethings and I can hardly wait to taste those.

So for now I'll keep pitching ice in the sink, I am making a slow chili today anyway. I promise to grab a hydro sample when the ice rate slows down and I am about to start raising the pressure.

Minor observations I will edit into this post, for major changes I will bump the thread.

EDITS BEGIN:

12-30-07- 1800 After 12 hours of feeding the ferment cooler ice I pulled a gravity sample, 1.034. Tasty enough I intend to get very very good at this technique.

01-01-08: I think my picnic tap was leaking. I took it off and forced carbed to 9psi, and then set the spunding valve set 9 revolutions above audible pffft. At one point I had a word problem laid out: 4 gal liquid and one gal head space at 64dF with one gal liquid and 4 gal headspace at 74dF - connected by a short tube, system pressure is 2psi. How many gallons of CO2 are in the system ?- so I stuck the serving keg in an ice bath to equalize the temperatures.

01-04-08 I guess my leak was in my new valve. I was losing pressure somewhere. I racked to serving keg earlier than I expected to reduce the system Oring count, and ended up forcing to 25psi and crash cooling. At this point i have 5 gallons of 1.016 all in one keg, in the fridge, at 50dF. The prssure in the headspace is "sopmewhere" north of 10psi. I am hooking my CO2 supply tank up once daily. Beer is __very__ tasty, I will be working out these bugs.

For now I would like a fixed relief valve at 5psi and a fixed relief valve at 25psi. I am thinking I can capture my high krausen in a second corny, then slap on the 5psi valve for primary ferment. When I get to 70-80% of expected attentuation I'll just change out the 5psi valve for the 25psi valve, and then crash cool when I get to or quite near expected FG.

01-07-08. I am drinking this beer, and it is good.

__________________

Last edited by Poindexter; 01-07-2008 at 04:50 AM.
Poindexter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-30-2007, 06:53 PM   #54
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,141
Liked 28 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I am so glad I am not using cornies, lol. I really just fill my primary, seal it up, and tap (not blending so I only need one keg for everyone following the thread). I don't know why you had to do anything other than hook up your kegs as mentioned and seat your seals with the 5 psi from your CO2 tank. I am looking forward to hearing the whole thing through.

__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2008, 04:54 AM   #55
Poindexter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Poindexter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: interior Alaska
Posts: 1,210
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Nine days, *ME to glass.


Bwa-ha-ha.

I'll take pictures next time through. Watch for brew on 01-27-08 after I move...

Thanks again wortmonger.

__________________
Poindexter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2008, 12:12 AM   #56
Dig
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23
Default Sounds awesome

I am soooo ready to start brewing with your guidance Mr. wortmonger!!!

__________________
Dig is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2008, 03:54 AM   #57
Poindexter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Poindexter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: interior Alaska
Posts: 1,210
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig
I am soooo ready to start brewing with your guidance Mr. wortmonger!!!
My next brew day is schedule for 01-27-08.

If you get there first, here is the 3 corny plan.

Corny #1 is going to catch "about" 4.5 to 4.75 of cooled wort. I am thinking 2 or 3 fingers of headspace. Maybe one finger.

Off the grey of corny 1 into the black of corny 2, very short large diameter tubing.

Krausen through the short tube, 2 quarts of yeast starting hop free wort in the bottom of corny two.

a tube, grey post corny two to black post corny three. Corny three is the serving keg, with "the rest" of the five gallon batch as plain old RO water.

spunding valve on grey post corny three at 5psi.

Pitch the yeast, seal up the kegs, purge CO2 in through the black post on corny #1 to 5 psi.

3 or 4 days later pull the yeast starting corny out of the mix, crank the spunding valve up to 25psi. Let the yeast run the pressure up, they can do it.

Note the water in corny three is carbonated to the same pressure as the rest of the batch in corny one.

On day seven or eight (5?) push out of the primary fermenter into the serving keg. Once you have your FG press to 25psi at room temp from your supply tank and get that sucker in the fridge.

You should have 1 keg that needs to be cleaned, one excellent yeast starter and a keg of beer.

Another week in the fridge, this stuff is going to be "better", but Jeez Louise. I am going to do this again. I will take pics. I am sure I can find some volunteers to sample a little beer....
__________________
Poindexter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2008, 05:14 PM   #58
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,141
Liked 28 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

LOL, so good it turned out for you. I like the idea of the 2nd keg being a starter. I think with this being the case, the yeast would eat/filter some of the supposedly yucky stuff that comes off with the fermentation CO2 before you get to your carbonated water. I wonder though if it is smart to trifle with the small port on the Corny or a Sanke for that matter with the "wanted" krausen from this method. If it got blocked up it could be bad. This is the reason I first looked into this way of fermenting, to keep everything in and below a certain spot in the vessel. With the "now wanted/ already carbonated/blending water" in the future works, I feel like a scrubbing type filter system might be better suited in-between the primary and target kegs leaving the krausen and the rest of the yuck in the fermenter. But, I can't wait to see your experiments. I love how one person can say something and another look at it with even more ideas or ways to go with it. I can't wait to try my first lager this way, with decoction no-less, if my pressure cooker ever gets here . So, did you get krausen in your primary to target keg gas line? Or, did the pressure of 5 psi keep the 1 gallon head space's krausen below the gas-in port on the primary?

__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-08-2008, 05:34 PM   #59
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,141
Liked 28 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig
I am soooo ready to start brewing with your guidance Mr. wortmonger!!!
Hey Justin (DIG)!!!!!,
How much closer are we to brewing in our new equipment? LOL, hummmmm? You need to get a mash mill. Oh, and Justin......this process allows for a higher fermentation temperature without the higher fermentation temperature byproducts. So, you could ferment anywhere in your house (depending ales and lagers). I can't wait until you are up and running there brother, the system I built you should be perfect for a start-up and if you ferment this way you won't have to worry about 60 bottles every time you brew a 5 gallon batch.
__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2008, 10:05 PM   #60
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,141
Liked 28 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default OK, here is a drawing of my procedure!!!!

Ok, I haven't done a blend yet with this way of brewing, but you can imagine it without the water in the serving keg if you want to. I finally decided in calling it a catchy name even though it is not by any means "my" idea. Here are some drawings of the way I brew/will be brewing.


and page two....

__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teri Fahrendorf's article on Closed System Pressurized Fermentation WortMonger General Techniques 6 12-15-2012 01:40 PM
Closed System Wort Cooling Works The Pol Equipment/Sanitation 32 10-15-2009 10:58 PM
Closed System Brewing Kettle....Project fifelee DIY Projects 19 10-10-2008 03:08 PM
Carboy to Keg - Closed system Orfy Bottling/Kegging 3 09-02-2007 04:50 PM
Closed system racking Brewing Clamper Bottling/Kegging 5 08-17-2007 09:02 PM