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View Poll Results: What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.
I've done it and I liked it just fine! 82 11.34%
I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques. 20 2.77%
I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again! 4 0.55%
I've never done it, but it is on my list! 538 74.41%
I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind. 79 10.93%
Voters: 723. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-06-2009, 03:39 PM   #201
BlakeBrews
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Have you looked at ColeParmer or McMaster? They are commercial fittings specialists and have on-line catalogs. You'll pay for ordering only a few pieces, but they may have what you're looking for.
Sorry if this is a repeat, but I don't have time to go through this extensive thread right now.

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Old 11-08-2009, 04:58 PM   #202
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Parts required and where they can be found:

Spunding Valve with airline connecting tap and valve:
- 1/4" beer/gas fitting: northern brewer, austin homebrew supply
- 1/4" tubing (cut at your preferred length): northern brewer, austin homebrew supply
- 1/4" barb x 1/4": Grainger item # 4HFG3 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4HFG3?Pid=search) or McMaster #5346K14 (http://www.mcmaster.com/#5346k14/=4eyvi3)
- 1/4" FPTx 1/4" FPT x 1/4" FPT T-adapter: Grainger # 1VEY8 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1VEY8?Pid=search) or McMaster #4429K251 (http://www.mcmaster.com/#4429k251/=4ez2ln)
- pressure gauge, 0-60 psi: McMaster # (http://www.mcmaster.com/#32255k72/=4ez5wo), although a bit expensive. I would buy from any online beer site (austinhomebrew, northernbrewer, etc for less)
- pressure relief valve, 0-60/0-100: Grainger # 4TK26 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=4tk26&op=search&Ntt=4tk26 &N=0&sst=All)
-pipe thread tape: Grainger # 4x227 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4X227?Pid=search) or McMaster #4591K12 (http://www.mcmaster.com/#4591k12/=4ezaed)

For direct pipe connection to gas outlet of sankey coupler:
- replace 1/4" barb with 1/4" MFL tailpiece: Midwest part previously listed was incorrect. Midwest has said they will look into obtaining and offering the part we need for this, as their supplier makes 'every type of fitting one could need'. (Sorry if anyone ordered this piece. Just tell them that you were misinformed, as I was, and they should take it back and credit you fully just as they did on my order.)

*this will connect directly to the T fitting for your gauge and relief valve, however something along the lines of the following piece might improve the Spunding valve, giving a bit of distance between the sankey coupler and the valve: McMaster #9171K63 (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9171k63/=4ezbqq)

Sorry these aren't all at the same site. They may be available from just 2 of these sites instead of 3, or just one even to keep shipping down. Please add to this list if better items or prices can be found.

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Last edited by nbspindel; 11-10-2009 at 09:40 PM. Reason: incorrect tailpiece item
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:46 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
Well, I ran into a small glitch. The sanke fermentation kit has a slow leak around the gas out port (at the weld). I love the kit, but I tend to have bad luck with equipment. So, if there is a bum one in the batch, I'll get it 98% of the time.
Derrin repaired the cracked weld on the gas out port and I'm going for my second attempt - Belgian Pale Ale fermented with Antwerp yeast (OG: 1.055).

The fermentation schedule is slightly different this time:
  • Day #1 - 0.5 PSI @ 67F (1.055)
  • Day #2 - 1 PSI @ 68F (1.030)
  • Day #3 - 2 PSI @ 69F (1.016)
  • Day #4 - 3 PSI @ 70F (1.013)
  • Day #5+ - 7 PSI @ 70F (1.012)
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Planned: Lambic, American IPA
Fermenting: 6 gals of 1.090 stout (Belgian) & 6 gals of 1.090 stout (English)
Tapped: Berliner Weisse, Black English IPA, German Pils, & Live Oak Primus

Last edited by lamarguy; 11-13-2009 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Following the ~7 PSI recommendation...
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:43 PM   #204
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Wow, it is great to follow the newest attempts with this technique. Keep the information flowing.

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Old 11-13-2009, 01:02 AM   #205
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After conducting some more research about the effect of CO2 pressure on yeast, it appears that ~7 PSI (0.5 ATM) is the recommended maximum pressure during fermentation. Past 7 PSI, enzymatic behavior changes and negative affects on the yeast cell membrane and growth rate are observed.

Yeast physiology and biotechnology By Graeme M. Walker

Other sources have cited 4 - 7 PSI as optimal for both wine and beer yeast. Pressure has been shown to reduce the production of esters, including acetyl CoA. Acetyl CoA is a direct precursor of diacetyl, therefore CO2 pressure limits the production of diacetyl. However, it also reduces yeast cell growth.

Top Pressure Fermentation and Temperature Control

Cultivation of Yeast under Carbon Dioxide Pressure for use in Continuous Sparkling Wine Production

Fermentative capacity of baker's yeast exposed to hyperbaric stress

Thus, I've modified the [above] fermentation schedule to note a maximum pressure of 7 PSI. I plan to hold the beer at 7 PSI for another 7 days and transfer to a serving keg (under pressure). I'll then finish carbonating to ~4 volumes of CO2.



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Planned: Lambic, American IPA
Fermenting: 6 gals of 1.090 stout (Belgian) & 6 gals of 1.090 stout (English)
Tapped: Berliner Weisse, Black English IPA, German Pils, & Live Oak Primus

Last edited by lamarguy; 11-13-2009 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Cited sources and added pictures...
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:05 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
After conducting some more research about the effect of CO2 pressure on yeast, it appears that ~7 PSI (0.5 ATM) is the recommended maximum pressure during fermentation. Past 7 PSI, enzymatic behavior changes and negative affects on the yeast cell membrane and growth rate are observed.

Yeast physiology and biotechnology By Graeme M. Walker

Other sources have cited 4 - 7 PSI as optimal for both wine and beer yeast.

Thus, I've modified the [above] fermentation schedule to note a maximum pressure of 6 PSI. I plan to hold the beer at 6 PSI for another 7 days and transfer to a serving keg (under pressure). I'll then finish carbonating to ~4 volumes of CO2.
lamarguy, would you be able to post or pm some of your resources (I'll be reading through the one you did post). I haven't really been able to find that much on pressurized fermentations and I would like to read up on it as I will probably give it a whirl soon enough. Just need to get a pressure relief setup. Thanks.
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:20 AM   #207
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I've been thinking of giving this a whirl. Does anyone ferments under pressure dry hop? If so, how do you do it? I'm guessing by putting the hops in a tea-ball in a bright tank, transfer the carbed beer to the bright tank and let it sit for a week, then transfer to serving keg?

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Old 11-13-2009, 05:31 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scut_Monkey View Post
lamarguy, would you be able to post or pm some of your resources (I'll be reading through the one you did post).
No problem, I updated my last post.
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Planned: Lambic, American IPA
Fermenting: 6 gals of 1.090 stout (Belgian) & 6 gals of 1.090 stout (English)
Tapped: Berliner Weisse, Black English IPA, German Pils, & Live Oak Primus
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:36 AM   #209
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Great info lamarguy. Recently I read something about tall 'Apollo' fermenters creating less esters due to the extra weight (i.e. hydrostatic pressure). Not something a homebrewer would ever have to worry about but the theory is the same. I really need to get a vessel to do this.

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Old 11-13-2009, 06:28 PM   #210
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A big round of applause to lamarguy!!!! You found the study I was trying to refind after doing my initial research into this. I read all the recommendations about pressures, and it was always for accelerated or higher temperature fermentations. I didn't want to do any of this, but normal temperatures at higher pressures. This is great information to do our own research from. I am so glad this thread has turned to more research literature, and to more help with the method.

The lower ester production is a key value for me. The higher initial production, and then faster cleanup of diacetyl is what kaiser led me to with this thread. Saccharomyces higher temperture lager fermentation is going to be great to add to this as well, or with his own thread. I simply like the simplicity of fermenting under pressure, and towards the end of fermentation raising the pressure to carbonation levels once the yeast have done thier primary job. I have had great luck in doing this, and really enjoy the product already carbonated going into my serving keg.

As for the dry-hopping, I hope we can gather more info on that. My thinking is to have a filter canister with hops (like a Randall) to use during transfer to my serving keg. Otherwise, it would be hard to accomplish without opening the keg-fermenter or having to transfer to yet another keg after dry-hopping the secondary. I hope we can all provide a ton more information to this thread for all to read. Man I love the P-ferment! Thanks again for everyone providing to this thread.

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