Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique! - Page 12

**WortMonger** · 04-05-2008, 06:32 PM

Ok, brewed this next one and it was a long day. The yeast I am glad to say are going fine today though despite my depressurizing their little home.

Ok, for some unknown reason to me all my temperatures were way off. I think my Ranco is about 3 degrees hotter than my floating thermometer, but even so I couldn't get any of my wanted temperatures right out of the HLT. I know my specific heat isn't right on my mash tun, but I do not know how to put those numbers in beersmith. I have always been a single infusion guy before, but started step infusing and wasn't too bad off until this fiasco.

Brew day started as normal, only I decided to go with a one smaller grind setting from the factory recommended Crankandstein mill setting. This was the reason my last batch wasn't very efficient, and for some reason I had moved the mill one setting coarser before that batch (chalk it up to brewing Gremlins I guess). So, now two settings lower my grist was a little more floury than I would have liked it, but it wasn't just screaming "Hey I'm gonna stick this Mother-F'er," like it should have been.

Lesson learned, grist mill set to recommended level now.

Ok, so now comes the dough-in. I forget to fill the bottom part of my tun with strike water before dumping in my grain. I get it all in and then realize I am going to have to stir like crazy to break up the balls that are coming....... and I did. Lots of fun so far, but the best is coming. I want my first rest at 133*F for 30 minutes. After I have pulled my first decoction fraction of the Beersmith's recommended 1.25 gallons and slowly raised the temperature to 160 over 20 minutes, I slapped on my pressure canner lid and cranked it up to 15 psi for 10 minutes. I have a copper bowl that fits into my pressure canner and acts like a double boiler. The smell....... breath-taking, the color...much darker than before with clear wort on the top coming through the grains. I figure I will add the whole lot since my 133*F rest turned into a 122*F rest

.

I add the decoction back and the raise was only to 138*F for my next rest. Now since I was trying to do a beta-amylase rest at 147*F and I also wanted to up my liquor to grain ratio, I had water ready at 147*F to make me at 2 qt/#. I added the water and got to 142*F. I was "close enough" after not hitting my first temperature, so I went with it and pulled my second decoction.

I slowly raised the decoction same as before for about 20 minutes then boiled at 15 psi again. Returning the decoction after the rest, I was expecting to miss my temperature again... and I did

. I really wanted to get to 158*F for my alpha-amylase rest and hit 154*F, so I again went with it extending it to a full hour.

Now the bowls I have for my pressure canner only go up to 1.25 gallons, so for my last mash-out decoction I chose to do what I have done before and take a "liquid only" fraction. I heated the whole mash runnings to 185*F in my boil kettle and returned most of it for a 168*F rest for 10 minutes. Rested and drained the whole thing back into my kettle for FWH and to start heating while the batch sparge went on.

Here's where the sparge put on the breaks. I add all my sparge water and stir. I slowly open my valve to start vorlauf and nothing. It was temper-mental during the mash-out decoction recirculation, but it got going after a few squeezes on the tubing when it did start to get clogged. Not so on this sparge. I had to blow through the drain tubing to get the crap out of the quick disconnect on my ball valve. Finally I get it going and into the kettle, after 30 minutes of trying and turning the kettle off so I didn't start boiling off all my first wort.

Boil went great. Hop additions were changed at the last minute due to dinner plans changing, so I added my 10 minute steep hops to 10 minute boil hops. This is actually better for this APA as the last batch is already losing some of it's "Bitter" to the maturation process. I like the last batch, but I think I should have more than 33 IBU's for an APA even if it is still in style.

So, looking back I will probably not do this for anything ever again. I will get my system in order and will probably only do a single step decoction for anything that may be better like a Bock or something heavier. I would like to do an experiment and see if grain scorches inside a pressure canner without anything separating it from the canner bottom. While writing this I kept messing with Beersmith to skew my numbers on my specific heat on my mash tun, and I think I finally have it. Lets hope for this next batch, lol.

WBC · 04-05-2008, 09:14 PM

Did you see this video on decoction mashing? You only return enough decocted wort and grain to raise to the next temperature level. That way you always hit your rests exactly on temp.

**WortMonger** · 04-05-2008, 09:29 PM

Well, I added all of my decoction and didn't reach my temperature so I don't know why you are telling me I should only return enough to raise to the next temperature level, lol. I did watch the video. I don't think Beersmith has a good decoction calculator as I thought I wouldn't have enough to raise the temperature before I started but went with it anyways. I know the next time to grab a little more than my calculations say for that way I can only add what I need for the steps.

Kaiser · 04-05-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WortMonger

I know the next time to grab a little more than my calculations say for that way I can only add what I need for the steps.

That's key to being able to deal with unforseen temp drops in the main mash.

Sorry to hear that you had a bad brew day. I had those to. They only made me try it again. Not the next brew but soon after.

Kai

WBC · 04-06-2008, 12:55 AM

Ok, I did not say anything about pulling enough mash to decoct but i'm sure you found that out. It takes practice to get good at anything that is complicated so don't feel bad and do try it again. Once you master it you will feel really good about it. I have done it about 9 times in 36 years and so I need practice too as my equipment has changed. I will be doing decoctions more now as I am into German beers. With the hop situation being the way it is we need to conserve hops.

**WortMonger** · 04-06-2008, 01:24 AM

Yeah, I hope you knew I took it in jest. I am amazed, clearest wort ever, and I got unforeseen gravity out of it. According to the first sample I took after boil, it was 16.2 Brix (or 1.068). I don't think so, so I headed out for dinner and checked some that wasn't pitched the following morning and it read 14.9 Brix (or 1.062). Wow, I skewed some other numbers on my efficiency and came up with approximately 1.058 OG. I did well by doing my decoction and increasing my efficiency so much from 1.047 last time. I think the finer grind also contributed to both PITA and higher efficiency. I will be going with factory recommended like I used to do next time

. I will start earlier than mashing at 1:00 PM next time as well. I am primed for my double decoction lagers I have planned, but never a triple unless style absolutely dictates.

Kaiser · 04-06-2008, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser

I'll have to update the Kraeusen article anyway and will be posting the spreadsheet with that. The spreadsheet needs lots of explaining anyway.

I finished the Kraeusening article and an article that explains how to calculate carbonation for various priming methods. In particular Kraeusen and residual extract:

Kraeusening
Priming

Kai

WBC · 04-06-2008, 04:18 AM

Kai, You are really in to this beer math I see. That is really useful information for those who are willing to read and understand it. I know you make great beers and I wish we could send some through the internet (teleportation). My beers are all good and I am always experimenting. I am building a cold room as I need the space for lagers. Aging beer long enough is a key factor once the brewing process is mastered. So many of us have consumed our beer too young. I am trying to Krausen my lagers and have been investigating the internet for all I can find on this subject so thanks for the great articles.

**WortMonger** · 04-07-2008, 06:10 PM

I have been fermenting now for a full 2 days and decided to take a sample since my efficiency was so much higher this time than last. I can only estimate my OG because I am a dumba$$ and put all of my wort in the fermenter before thinking about a dang sample. I read my OG from a sample taken from leftover pump wort with my refractometer. I figured the sample from the following evening was because of the light conditions and wort particles present in the sample, and so took the OG reading the next day. I do not recommend this to anyone reading, always use a hydrometer for OG and FG. Refractometers are great for fast pre-fermentation gravity, but accuracy does suffer with alcohol present and a hydrometer reading for OG is a great thing to have.

So after tweaking some more numbers on Beersmith to get it set right, I came up with an OG of around 1.054. Today, my hydrometer tells me I am at 1.022 GU and my refractometer tells me around 8.5 Brix. With my readings set aside for further scrutiny later on, I decided to drink my sample for tasting like we all do

and I am amazed. This tastes like a completely different beer at this stage than the other one did just 2 weeks ago at the same point. While you still can't get the bitterness due to all the sugar still present and yeast, the malt flavor is wonderful. It is like everything is one. The recirculation that I did last time while cooling didn't occur this time. I decided to go directly to the fermenter from my Therminator and I honestly think the aroma hops are more prevalent this time than last. I steeped them last time 10 minutes and then recirculated before transferring. This time they went in 10 minutes from the end of the boil and got chilled instantly after boil. Hopefully, I am only 10 points from finish. I guess we will see what the gravity is like tomorrow to determine when I need to untap and pressure up the keg for carbonation. I want my new adjustable back-pressure relief valve now!!!!!

Oh, and I decided to up the pressure fermentation to 12 psi this time from the 5 psi last time. This gives me greater than normal hydrostatic pressure to give you guys reading more information on the subject of this thread. I am still loving this way of brewing and will keep telling you guys everything of my adventures.

**WortMonger** · 04-14-2008, 08:28 PM

Well, I went to go check my pressure and figured I would have to bleed down to my desired level of 12 psi @ 32*F. Nope, right on the money. Finally, things seem to be automatic. Well, just a little while longer at 32*F and then it gets transfered into the serving kegs for a week long room temperature rest. I can't wait to taste this one, even if it isn't old enough

.

My other batch is rolling out this week on Thursday for its debut and I can't wait to hear the comments from friends and family. Hopefully I will still have some of it on tap to compare with this triple decocted batch. I am saving a keg in reserve so no worries, lol

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