The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

View Poll Results: What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.
I've done it and I liked it just fine! 80 11.28%
I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques. 20 2.82%
I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again! 4 0.56%
I've never done it, but it is on my list! 528 74.47%
I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind. 77 10.86%
Voters: 709. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-05-2011, 03:24 PM   #1071
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,125
Liked 26 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinny View Post
I've got 10 gal of BM's Centennial Blonde that just finished up pressurized fermentation. It is split between 2 cornies with my spunding valve connected to a tee between the two liquid ports. I am thinking about using gelatin, but am undecided about how to go about it. The way I see it I can: 1) add the gelatin directly to these corny kegs, cold crash, then transfer to serving kegs. 2) transfer, add gelatin, cold crash, transfer again 3) or some other combination of steps. What metod would you guys suggest for ending up with a good balance of the least amount of sediment in the serving kegs with the least amount of work. Basically, I am just looking to have serving kegs that will not take too long to pour clear after transporting.
You have the SV on your liquid ports? They should be on gas only or you will have beer coming out of them with the pressure you have in the kegs.

I have thought about this and I am still unsure about how to go about gelatin myself. I use Sanke, so it is even more difficult for me. I have come to think in my process I would like to add it to the fermentor, since I know I can add about a half gallon and not overflow my keg. Of course you wouldn't be adding that much water/gelatin mixture to the kegs anyway. I think the best way would be to use another keg, in your case a third, and counter-pressure fill the fermentor with it. This way you are still under the positive pressures, still have your CO2 volumes, and have a keg that is simply gelatin to clean up afterwords. Heck, you might not even worry about cleaning the jello keg and just refill it when you transfer from your fermentor(s). I would not bother with racking to another set of kegs just to add gelatin, only to have to rack again unless I was going to dry-hop or something, but that is just me. If your setup makes that easier then go for it, I just hate cleaning kegs.
__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 03:59 PM   #1072
skinny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 40
Default

I meant the SV is between the two gas ports. I like your train of thought on this. I think I am going to add the gelatin to the intended serving kegs, counter-pressure into the fermenting kegs and leave the serving kegs sealed up until the gelatin has had time to do its thing, then counter-pressure back to serving kegs and enjoy.

__________________
skinny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 04:08 PM   #1073
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,125
Liked 26 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Sounds like a great plan using two kegs to do this. Now you can measure appropriately in each keg and know exactly what is going into your fermentors, as well as not have to clean anything you aren't already using.

__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 04:16 PM   #1074
joeybeer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 524
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

Hey Wortmonger -
Thanks so much for this technique, it's gone really well for me so far !
a few hundred pages back, you mentioned using a stir plate to stir the primary in a sanke. I recently got a Black MAXX stir plate from stir-plate.com, and asked if it would work on a stainless keg, they thought it wouldn't, but I tried anyway It spins just fine ! The case is tough enough for a 5gallon batch, but a full sanke would probably be too much. I'm going to cut 4" off the top of a 5gal bucket, put the stir plate underneath, and the sanke on the bucket ring. So far I've only tested with about 4 gallons of water, and have to work today, but i'll try it with 10G soon.. The stir plate has no problem whipping a vortex into the top of a 5gallon carboy !

__________________
joeybeer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 05:32 PM   #1075
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,125
Liked 26 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Awesome! I can't wait to hear your results as I haven't had the chance to try anything other than a boil kettle test. It spun the keggle while full of water. I hope you get a chance to test it with a batch and see what it does. I'm also interested in finding out how much one has to cut off a dip-tube to allow for the spin when located on the Sanke bottom.

We were just talking about O2 pressure aeration... just think how easy a stir bar would work in conjunction with pressurized O2 for greatly increasing the absorption into the wort prior to fermentation. Then you have the increase in yeast to wort surface area since everything is being moved around. One wouldn't have to worry about the things that make a stirred starter taste bad, since you are under pressure and only in contact with CO2. I bet krausen would be held down due to the circulation, allowing even greater amounts to ferment without worrying about a mess in your SV. Clean up would probably be accelerated due to the yeast to beer surface area increasing, which could also be done at lagering temperatures for a speedy lagering period.

I don't see anything but good and have wanted to add this simplistic method to the process for a long time now. Go for it!

__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-06-2011, 11:21 AM   #1076
flananuts
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
flananuts's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Posts: 506
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I've used gelatin for the purpose of trying and before I had my freezer/chamber. Now I just cold crash and run through a 1micron filter to keep any sediment from passing through. I rigged a counter pressure setup pretty cheap and I love it. What's great with the brass needle valve is I can just put it in a bucket and any foam from the transfer just gets pushed out the gas ports into a bucket. I out a link to it in case you are interested. Yes, two weeks ferment at 48degree, two weeks crashed at 33 degrees and it pours deliciously. My father and father in law prolly drank a half gallon of it yesterday. No diacetyl yet again with this 5psi and straight 48 degree ferm on bock, Bavarian lager, and pilsner.


On another note, my wife and I welcomed our third child and first son to the family yesterday and I toasted a pressure fermented Fest beer in his honor!
__________________
flananuts is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-06-2011, 01:20 PM   #1077
1MadScientist
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
1MadScientist's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Panhandle of Florida, USA
Posts: 408
Liked 16 Times on 13 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

My 2nd pressurized fermentation went well! I did a traditional immersion chilling and left the break material behind but picked up most all my hops. At the time of counter pressure transferring I let the first bit go into my dedicated spunding valve corny until it went clear, moved jumper to SV...,then noticed trash in the line at the last stage, pulled jumper.., nothing but clear beer in SV!

Here's 2 pictures of the 1st transfer;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/madscie...us/6169480637/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/madscie...us/6217054265/

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinny View Post
I've got 10 gal of BM's Centennial Blonde that just finished up pressurized fermentation. It is split between 2 cornies with my spunding valve connected to a tee between the two liquid ports. I am thinking about using gelatin, but am undecided about how to go about it. The way I see it I can: 1) add the gelatin directly to these corny kegs, cold crash, then transfer to serving kegs. 2) transfer, add gelatin, cold crash, transfer again 3) or some other combination of steps. What metod would you guys suggest for ending up with a good balance of the least amount of sediment in the serving kegs with the least amount of work. Basically, I am just looking to have serving kegs that will not take too long to pour clear after transporting.
I just counter pressure transferred my 2nd pressurized fermentation in cornys. I have used gelatin in buckets and conicals only and see that it's very thick and seems immobile at the bottom. What I would think is the best practice would be to put your gelatin solution in your empty SV and counter pressure transfer, wait 2-3 days and serve. I'm assuming here that the SV remains immobile too.
__________________

In Cat Beers - I've Only Had One

BIABrewer.info / Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique

Brewing with MS; http://www.flickr.com/photos/madscie...473769/detail/

1MadScientist is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-06-2011, 02:04 PM   #1078
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,125
Liked 26 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flananuts View Post
Now I just cold crash and run through a 1micron filter to keep any sediment from passing through. I rigged a counter pressure setup pretty cheap and I love it. What's great with the brass needle valve is I can just put it in a bucket and any foam from the transfer just gets pushed out the gas ports into a bucket. I out a link to it in case you are interested.

On another note, my wife and I welcomed our third child and first son to the family yesterday and I toasted a pressure fermented Fest beer in his honor!
Any chance you could do a complete and very detailed walk-thru of your filter setup. That is exactly as I do, only one keg at a time.

When you say needle valve, is that what is at the end of the two gas port lines on your kegs being filled? I think it is, but just to be clear for others reading I have to ask. Also, does your filter ever completely fill with beer while filtering? Mine is always much more full of beer than you showed in your video, so I wonder if you just don't purge your filter housing. Heck, maybe you don't even have a housing with a relief on it, lol. If you don't purge, how are you getting so much beer in your transfer lines after the filter? I had to turn my filter housing upside down to get pure beer during my transfer. I ask because of how the filter works. In your video it would seem you should get a lot more foam, but you don't??? I am curious since the filter works like a holey straw, and you have foam not beer right at the point before the beer goes up and out of the filter housing. I have had better luck, as I said, purging most of the foam/airspace out of the housing and then turning upside down during the transfer, but I would love to be able to use it the right way up.

Congrats on the new rug rat! Teach him well and in a couple of years you won't have to brew a drop of beer .
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MadScientist
I have used gelatin in buckets and conicals only and see that it's very thick and seems immobile at the bottom. What I would think is the best practice would be to put your gelatin solution in your empty SV and counter pressure transfer, wait 2-3 days and serve. I'm assuming here that the SV remains immobile too.
So, the gelatin forms a "jello" on the bottom of the serving kegs? After the first pint or so it makes a clean area around the pick-up tube and you have clean beer?

Another confusing thing... when you say SV you are meaning serving vessel (keg) right? It gets confusing in this thread since we talk a lot about spunding valves (SV). I am just thinking for those that just start reading the thread this might be confusing.
__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-07-2011, 03:52 PM   #1079
1MadScientist
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
1MadScientist's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Panhandle of Florida, USA
Posts: 408
Liked 16 Times on 13 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WortMonger View Post
So, the gelatin forms a "jello" on the bottom of the serving kegs? After the first pint or so it makes a clean area around the pick-up tube and you have clean beer?

Another confusing thing... when you say SV you are meaning serving vessel (keg) right?
I haven't used gelatin with pre-carbonated beer, but it should work and behave the same way and most likely would form a dimple around the tube and left undisturbed would be fine until the keg blows.

I only used gelatin twice on a club competition APA and a keg that I brought to the ECBF we participated in.
__________________

In Cat Beers - I've Only Had One

BIABrewer.info / Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique

Brewing with MS; http://www.flickr.com/photos/madscie...473769/detail/

1MadScientist is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-07-2011, 05:03 PM   #1080
WortMonger
United States Mashtronaut
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WortMonger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmond, OK, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,125
Liked 26 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Cool, good to know but i will probably stick to filtration. I just wish I could get the filtration to go a little better for me personally.

__________________
"Beer... Nutritious and Delicious!"

"It's like a 15.5 gallon Mr. Beer!"
WortMonger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teri Fahrendorf's article on Closed System Pressurized Fermentation WortMonger General Techniques 6 12-15-2012 01:40 PM
Closed System Wort Cooling Works The Pol Equipment/Sanitation 32 10-15-2009 10:58 PM
Closed System Brewing Kettle....Project fifelee DIY Projects 19 10-10-2008 03:08 PM
Carboy to Keg - Closed system Orfy Bottling/Kegging 3 09-02-2007 04:50 PM
Closed system racking Brewing Clamper Bottling/Kegging 5 08-17-2007 09:02 PM