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**GNBrews** · 10-06-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WortMonger

At work and boredom has struck. Been thinking about vacuums and how they can boil and freeze a liquid. What if you could boil with a vacuum, chill with a vacuum, then pitch and ferment under pressure?

Neat idea...but.

When you boil wort, you're not just boiling for boiling's sake, the temperature is an important part of the equation. In fact, the reason that recipes often have "high altitude" directions, is because of the lower air pressure found at high altitude. As a consequence, food does not cook as quickly because the temperature at which water boils is lower (~1°F for every 550ft above sea level).

A good example of this is trying to brew in a place like Denver, CO where water boils ~202F. As a result, hop utilization is about 20% lower.

storunner13 · 10-06-2011, 05:17 PM

Wow. You must have been very bored....and deadset on on getting the 1000th post! (You beat me to it!

)

Looks like you need to build a rocket ship to do you brewing in outer space

**DeNomad** · 10-06-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GNBrews

Neat idea...but.

When you boil wort, you're not just boiling for boiling's sake, the temperature is an important part of the equation. In fact, the reason that recipes often have "high altitude" directions, is because of the lower air pressure found at high altitude. As a consequence, food does not cook as quickly because the temperature at which water boils is lower (~1°F for every 550ft above sea level).

A good example of this is trying to brew in a place like Denver, CO where water boils ~202F. As a result, hop utilization is about 20% lower.

Hop utilzation is lower at higher altitudes? Can you please direct me to more detailed information on this subject? Thx - someone who lives around 2372 feet.

**MalFet** · 10-06-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeNomad

Hop utilzation is lower at higher altitudes? Can you please direct me to more detailed information on this subject? Thx - someone who lives around 2372 feet.

There's an article around here somewhere...I'll see if I can find it. Basically, alpha isomerization rates roughly half for every 10ºC in temperature drop below 100ºC.

**WortMonger** · 10-06-2011, 07:42 PM

Like I said, bored! Lol

**kpr121** · 10-06-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1MadScientist

I had a leaking keg lid the first 60 hours but managed to pressure ferment from there forward.

I counter-pressure transferred my beer this morning. It was very easy and un-eventful. So easy even a cave man can do it. I had 7 psi of carbonation already on my finished beer at 35*F, so it was ready to drink, IMO. That's a 14 day 'cube-to-glass'. This is my first pressure ferment, it is very drinkable, and an easy process. Count me in as a believer.

I believe, brother WortMonger, I believe.

This is absolutely delicious.
9 # 2-row
8 oz biscuit
8 oz carapils
1 # golden naked oats
3.6 oz FWH of Palisades.
That's about a 1.057 starting gravity or so.

I'm sticking with BIAB and the "Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique". I no-chill but am not afraid to whip out my IC.

Now for my next trick, 10 gallon batches and I'll be sitting pretty, woo.

Nice! Actually I just brewed up my second batch of pressurized fermented goodness and my grainbill was very similar to yours. I do 10 gallon batches so my quantities were doubled. A little less 2-row, same biscuit, same carapils. No naked oats (I dont even know what those are), but instead I added 1 lb of crystal 10L.

Hops were 2 oz of Nugget and 2 oz of Magnum as FWH, and 2 oz of Hallertauer at flameout.

Gravity readings tasted good, at 1.049.

**flananuts** · 10-06-2011, 11:42 PM

Question is what will the next innovation in closed pressure fermentation be? I remember when this thread was birthed and like the long line of dirty runners I too joined behind Forest Gump as we ran across America again and again and again until he said...."like I said bored" and we all stood there in wonder what to do next.

**Dgonza9** · 10-07-2011, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storunner13

I'm curious why you've ended up with this method. In some ways it's easier than naturally carbing..you just set it, forget it, and then put it on gas in the fridge. Do you do so for better results, simplicity, or just because it works? God knows there are thousands of steps to brewing beer which people might do because "it's what I do, and it works".

Just trying to get some insight from those who have used this method a few times more than me (maybe not for long...

)

It started because I had trouble with the sanke rings. I found them hard to get out and worse to get back in. I used snap rings and the special snap wring pliers for a while. Those went in and out pretty easily, but they are too thick. So they didn't seat perfectly and I found that they popped out at about 20 psi. Although sometimes they didn't. I once left my spund valve closed when starting fermentation by accident. I came back later and the keg was at 45 psi! I slowly bled the pressure down and beer came out great.

But that same setup popped my snap ring off at 15 psi later in the brewing. I wasted 15lbs of Co2. I just never trusted it except at 12psi or so. Hence my method. Now I have a Brewershardware kit and I like it just fine. I liked the modified coupler better, but the sanke ring issues made it a no go.

This method still saves me time, though. I can carb during the end of fermentation or during crash cooling. So I still save time on this step.

For me, the biggest thing about this method was fermenting in a sanke and using gas to transfer. It has enabled me to experiment quite a bit with filtering, pressure ferments, etc.

**GNBrews** · 10-08-2011, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeNomad

Hop utilzation is lower at higher altitudes? Can you please direct me to more detailed information on this subject? Thx - someone who lives around 2372 feet.

Ray Daniels posted a conversion formula on HBD a while back: http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4125.html

Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 05:53:07 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: hop utilization, Designing Great Beers

This is about altitude and hop utilization. My information on this
subject came from Garetz (Using Hops, 1994). On page 137, he gives a
correction factor as follows:

TF = ((Elevation in feet/550)*0.02) + 1

Multiply your wort volume by this factor in IBU or hop weight
calculations to apply the correction.

I just ran a little sample calculation to see what the effect would be
for your two locations and it showed a drop in bitterness yield of about
20 percent.

As I have brewed entirely in Chicago with a few hundred grand feet of
elevation above sea level, I have never had occasion to use or test this
equation.
Others may be able to comment on its suitability in settings such as
those Dave describes.

Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
Association of Brewers

ray at aob.org
773-665-1300

**homebeerbrewer** · 10-08-2011, 02:27 AM

Quote:

I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.

LOL

I do ferment in Sankes, but I've never tried it... Yet...