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WBC 08-31-2008 11:02 PM

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Ok, Being that I can not see in the Keg it is hard to know just how it acts and I will try 13.5 and see how it goes. I was considering something like this...


WBC 09-01-2008 01:42 AM

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I see no way to shorten the hight of the krausen recovery without using a pump or CO2 to push the liquid back into the keg. Using valves and a higher (temporary) pressure of CO2 you could push the liquid wort back into the keg 1 or 2 times a day during the first days of fermentation. You could do a full 15.5 gallon batch.

See picture.


SankePankey 06-08-2010 12:13 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandMike View Post

One thing you guys had mentioned a little while back was having one spunding valve to control multiple fermenting kegs. I was thinking about this and how to rig it up but there is a problem (I think) I thought of.
I am in the process of doing just that. I am waiting to test my solution before I post much about it. It's not really for the same purpose, since I ferment in a Sanke, but would work for the same beer in 3 corny's too.

Basically, I'm using a 3 port gas manifold without check valves that terminates in a corny post (rather than a barb) so I can remove my spunding valve from the whole assembly and put it on my main fermenter. It's important it doesn't have check valves because it's operating in reverse.

LooyvilleLarry 09-01-2010 12:07 PM

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Well, this post is in sorrow, and hopefully others can learn.

I am using BrewersHardware Sanke fermenter cap ala-Lamar style with the push on fittings and relief valve from Grangier.

I made a 11g Oktoberfest ale, 1.056 OG, pitched 2 packs of S04. I set the initial psi to 2, temp to 68. It got a little colder ( some overshoot in the cooler ) down to 62, but I let it warm up a bit. The following morning, I found that the pushon fitting on the racking cane had blown off, and there was enough fermenting beer to force most of it out.

I am not sure how the PRV failed, but it can happen. I'll be doing a lager to replace this, and I will do this pressurized to help with preventing diacetyl.


SankePankey 10-04-2010 11:44 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgonza9 View Post
When you say, "open the relief valve on the cornies" do you mean a spunding valve? Or are you just saying that once the transfer starts I can release the pressure entirely in the destination kegs?

I'm thinking that I may not need spund valves to counter pressure fill my kegs. I suppose I can just hook the cornies up to my regulator set at 7 psi, and then set my sanke to 9 psi with a different co2 tank and regulator, which I do have.

Would this work? I have sanke spund valve and one corny spund valve. I'd like to use the "tee" filling idea posted above.
I thought I'd report on my 3 kegs at once in tandem Corny filling from a Sanke fermenter method since the topic has come up. I alluded to it about 3 pages ago. I've tested it a couple times with water, flat beer, and closed system carb'd beer. It is working well so far. I should probably do a new thread with this, but since it came up...

I thought of this and kind of hoped it would work since it didn't seem anyone else had done it on this forum (having asked a couple times). After going thru with it, I did notice that several commercial breweries do this. Notably, in my area, Cooperstown Brewery. They call it the "Octopus" and fill 7 kegs at a time right from the brite tank.

Anyhoo, the concept is that if you have your 3 kegs pressurized exactly the same, you can counterpressure fill at the exact same pace and end up with (near) equal volume transfer per keg. I do this by way of two items-

On the liquid side:
3 way pneumatic manifold (~$8 McMaster) that splits the input three ways at the same exact angle. I went with this instead of a cross because I figured two out of the three feeds would be at 90 degree angles and the third would be straight and I'd end up with unequal transfers (I'd love it if a fluid dynamicist would prove me wrong, I dunno). If you are trying to do just 2 kegs from a Sanke like the previous poster, I think a tee would be great.

On the gas side:
3 way gas manifold that has NO check valves in the shutoffs (since it is operating in the reverse direction it would in a kegerator). That's terminated with a corny post - so I could hop-scotch my spunding valve to and fro.


Technique:
1) Purge the 3 cornys at once and send out any remaining Starsan and pressurize to ~8 PSI.
2) Put the spunding valve on the gas manifold and calibrate to the kegs.
3) Hook up 'The Octopus' to the fermenter- without hooking up the three liquid ball locks (they are acting as a shut-off).
4) Hook up the gas to the fermenter and pressurize to the same PSI.
5) Put disconnects on the liquid in of each keg. Nothing happens since they are both at ~8 PSI.
6) Crank up the CO2 a couple PSI and watch the fun start. Alternately, turn down the spunding valve. Still not sure which is better, if one is.
7) Watch the frost line and drink a beer. Shut off CO2 when fermenter is empty.

Generally, I get about a quart margin-of-error of being exactly the same volume per keg. And then I have equal headroom in the kegs to force carb (which I can do 3 at once with the same manifold) or whatever I want to do. Also, I have tested this just filling two kegs and it works the same. Since the ball lock connectors are like shutoffs, it works just as well with a pair (gas/liq) just hangin out.

The part number for the pneumatic fitting from McMaster is: 5465K71. Unfortunately it's Aluminum. Stainless manifolds like this are real pricy.

Here are a few pics. The first is the liquid side (which is terminated with tri-clamp). I can do a video if anyone's interested. I'll be transferring in couple days- cold crashing right now.

SankePankey 10-04-2010 11:44 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgonza9 View Post
When you say, "open the relief valve on the cornies" do you mean a spunding valve? Or are you just saying that once the transfer starts I can release the pressure entirely in the destination kegs?

I'm thinking that I may not need spund valves to counter pressure fill my kegs. I suppose I can just hook the cornies up to my regulator set at 7 psi, and then set my sanke to 9 psi with a different co2 tank and regulator, which I do have.

Would this work? I have sanke spund valve and one corny spund valve. I'd like to use the "tee" filling idea posted above.
I thought I'd report on my 3 kegs at once in tandem Corny filling from a Sanke fermenter method since the topic has come up. I alluded to it about 3 pages ago. I've tested it a couple times with water, flat beer, and closed system carb'd beer. It is working well so far. I should probably do a new thread with this, but since it came up...

I thought of this and kind of hoped it would work since it didn't seem anyone else had done it on this forum (having asked a couple times). After going thru with it, I did notice that several commercial breweries do this. Notably, in my area, Cooperstown Brewery. They call it the "Octopus" and fill 7 kegs at a time right from the brite tank.

Anyhoo, the concept is that if you have your 3 kegs pressurized exactly the same, you can counterpressure fill at the exact same pace and end up with (near) equal volume transfer per keg. I do this by way of two items-

On the liquid side:
3 way pneumatic manifold (~$8 McMaster) that splits the input three ways at the same exact angle. I went with this instead of a cross because I figured two out of the three feeds would be at 90 degree angles and the third would be straight and I'd end up with unequal transfers (I'd love it if a fluid dynamicist would prove me wrong, I dunno). If you are trying to do just 2 kegs from a Sanke like the previous poster, I think a tee would be great.

On the gas side:
3 way gas manifold that has NO check valves in the shutoffs (since it is operating in the reverse direction it would in a kegerator). That's terminated with a corny post - so I could hop-scotch my spunding valve to and fro.


Technique:
1) Purge the 3 cornys at once and send out any remaining Starsan and pressurize to ~8 PSI.
2) Put the spunding valve on the gas manifold and calibrate to the kegs.
3) Hook up 'The Octopus' to the fermenter- without hooking up the three liquid ball locks (they are acting as a shut-off).
4) Hook up the gas to the fermenter and pressurize to the same PSI.
5) Put disconnects on the liquid in of each keg. Nothing happens since they are both at ~8 PSI.
6) Crank up the CO2 a couple PSI and watch the fun start. Alternately, turn down the spunding valve. Still not sure which is better, if one is.
7) Watch the frost line and drink a beer. Shut off CO2 when fermenter is empty.

Generally, I get about a quart margin-of-error of being exactly the same volume per keg. And then I have equal headroom in the kegs to force carb (which I can do 3 at once with the same manifold) or whatever I want to do. Also, I have tested this just filling two kegs and it works the same. Since the ball lock connectors are like shutoffs, it works just as well with a pair (gas/liq) just hangin out.

The part number for the pneumatic fitting from McMaster is: 5465K71. Unfortunately it's Aluminum. Stainless manifolds like this are real pricy.

Here are a few pics. The first is the liquid side (which is terminated with tri-clamp). I can do a video if anyone's interested. I'll be transferring in couple days- cold crashing right now.

SankePankey 10-11-2010 01:52 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by flananuts View Post
Interesting point on the over carbonation a la natural. Thanks for the tip. SankeyP, thanks for the video, very insightful, and has given me an idea to incorporate counter pressure filling on my current IPA.
No prob. If anyone wants to try it with a cross (which would be more sanitary, really) I'd like to know if it works. I wasn't willing to and I needed NPT for my tri-clover fitting anyways.

Here's an updated Technique based on lessons from that transfer:
1) Hook up 'The Octopus' to the fermenter.
2) Pressurize to 10 PSI. Bleed to 9 PSI with spunding valve.
3) Purge 3 cornys at once and send out any remaining Starsan. Pressurize to ~10 PSI.
4) Put the spunding valve on the corny gas manifold and bleed to calibrated 9 PSI. All vessels the same.
5) Put disconnects on the liquid in of each keg. Nothing happens if they're all calibrated the same.
6) Crank up the CO2 a couple PSI in a quickish motion to 'prime' the transfer.
7) As the frost line approaches near done, ride the spunding valve closed so there's less of a pressure differential from sending keg once gurgling starts.
8) Shut the spunding valve when gurgling starts. Only takes a few seconds to stop with the small headroom now in receiveing kegs.

Here is what some breweries would use:

SankePankey 09-20-2011 01:06 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbuno View Post
SankeyPankey mentioned in post #914:
"I have a bottom dump, so pretend I have a conical re: harvesting yeast. I harvest after racking and after gradually depressurizing the two fermenters back to atmospheric pressure."

Now I'm really confused!? how do you rack then harvest the yeast? Do you have a photo or diagram of what you did? I looked but can't find anything yet, if you have post #s that would be great!
Thanks to all for a great thread!
My 3 gal corny is also my starter vessel. I push it into the primary, then put a gas dip tube in so there's no liquid dip tube. It stays that way thru primary and I put my spunding valve on the corny. After crashing, I'll rack by pushing CO2 from the corny into the sanke. I'll have cleared my dip tube from any gunk from having taken gravity samples with my cobra tap. After racking I (gently, with the spunding valve) depressurize the ganged duo and then take the hose and clamp it to the bottom dump and dump the whole cake into the corny and have my way with it after that.

Those fittings you see that aren't corny posts are corny posts welded to tri-clamp caps- to give me threadless in and out and marry to my other stuff (filter, counterpressure devices, tubing, etc on tri-clamps).

This pic is cold crashing before racking to secondary (I missed my opportunity to dry hop before the end of primary).

joeybeer 10-04-2011 03:27 AM

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So here are the photos !

Basically, I'd never tried a pressure transfer before and was thinking about how to start. ( nearest LHBS 100 miles )

I also needed to clean my taps, and when I saw my liquid line attached to my shank,



Attachment 35232



I thought it might fit on the sanke coupler.. And dammit it DID !!

So there is a pre made line in your kegerator, you just have to disconnect it !!



Attachment 35233


Just to be clear, the line removed from the fridge screws right on to the center liquid out on the sanke coupler, and the pin lock end goes to the liquid out on the corney for filling !!


joeybeer 10-04-2011 03:27 AM

2 Attachment(s)

So here are the photos !

Basically, I'd never tried a pressure transfer before and was thinking about how to start. ( nearest LHBS 100 miles )

I also needed to clean my taps, and when I saw my liquid line attached to my shank,



Attachment 35232



I thought it might fit on the sanke coupler.. And dammit it DID !!

So there is a pre made line in your kegerator, you just have to disconnect it !!



Attachment 35233


Just to be clear, the line removed from the fridge screws right on to the center liquid out on the sanke coupler, and the pin lock end goes to the liquid out on the corney for filling !!



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