Brewing with tap water -- from the HOT faucet - Page 4

nyer · 12-01-2008, 04:48 PM

Great, now I'm worried. I used hot tap water for the last couple of batches. So far they taste fine. I have well water with a white filter on all water going into a water softener that has those plastic beads. The cold water then has a charcoal filter and the hot doesn't. I don't really see how salt can be an issue with the type of softener I have, the salt brine is only used to clean the beads and then it's rinsed away.

**FSR402** · 12-01-2008, 05:23 PM

I have been useing hot water thru an inline filter for about a year now. I replace the filter after 5-8 brews and I have not had any problems with the beer nor have I grown a third arm.

GNBrews · 12-01-2008, 10:28 PM

It's not that your going to make some nasty chemical by putting hot water through an activated carbon filter, but you really reduce it's effectiveness by doing so.

**jcarson83** · 12-01-2008, 10:54 PM

I just recently quit using hot water so I haven't noticed a difference yet. I thought one day how full the tanks get with calcium and other minerals and that couldn't be good for my beer.

BrewMonsterHead · 12-03-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonpile

You shouldn't drink water from the hot water tank. It can have all kinds of nasty bacteria and chemicals and whatnot.

The same thing is true of cold water.

Bottom line, you are going to boil it. So as long as the trace elements and pH levels are OK....go for it.

I reality, nothing kills all bacteria and there are some that can survive freezing temperatures and boiling temperatures. Just don't take your water from Old Faithful or other hot springs.

blk94f150 · 12-04-2008, 06:25 AM

If you maintain your hot water heater, you shouldn't have a bunch of build up. Just flushing it now and then will keep the crap out and add years to the service life.

I've brewed with cold and hot water with no difference in taste noted. Also most of the time you used hot water, you have to let it run to get hot. This flushes most of the water in the pipes from the heater to the faucet out before it gets hot.

Mike

**WBC** · 12-05-2008, 05:03 PM

I voted yes. Commercial micro breweries are doing this now, they have special water heaters that can heat to 180 F and hold it there. Any filtering is done before it enters the water heater. Home water heaters can not be adjusted that high due to design and safety concerns.

If you are really worried then send a water sample from your water heater to Ward Labs for analysis.

**ChshreCat** · 12-05-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarleyWater

Same pricipal as boiling water to have the hardness precipitate out. Minerals and metals in the water will collect because of the heating element, making the water from all but the newest water heaters contain high levels of minerals, making a much harder water profile from the hot faucet.

This is the common wisdom, but it doesn't seem to make sense to me. If the minerals come out of the water to collect in the tank, then the water would then have LESS minerals that when it entered the tank. And if minerals collecting in the tank end up coming out in the water, then in a short time there would be no excess minerals in the tank.

It just doesn't make sense that water from the hot water tank would have more minerals than the water going in, unless it was somehow leaching minerals out of the metal of the tank itself.

**donaldson** · 12-05-2008, 05:19 PM

I've always used hot water. It just saves time mashing and sparging. I had always figured on bacteria, but then knew the boil would take care of that. But the increased hardness of the water, now that I never thought about. I've got a ph meter at home, and first things first, I'm going to test the cold and hot water ph. If there's mineral build up in the tank, I should be able to detect it, right? Hard water is more alkaline?

For what it's worth:

Cold water faucet: 8.10
Hot water Faucet: 7.76

Both were tested at room temperature. Water tank is about 10 years old. London's water comes from either Lake Erie or Lake Huron and is considered "moderately hard."

boredatwork · 12-10-2008, 11:38 PM

My brewing experience is pretty much close to zero, so I usually spend my time just reading posts, never replying. However, as an avid fish keeper, water chemistry is something I can chime in on.

Coming from that perspective there is one fast and firm rule - never guess always test!

I just wanted to clear up some terminology. pH, Alkalinity, and Hardness are all three completely different things. High pH has no scientific correlation to alkalinity or hardness and vice-versa. pH is a measure of the hydrogen concentration. Alkalinity is a measure of the ability of the water to store excess hydrogen in a bonded form that can free itself when free hydrogen is absorbed elsewhere. Alkalinity is best thought of as a measure of the ability to resist a drop in pH. Hardness is a measure of the concentration of dissolved mineral ions.

"Hard water" is associated with the Hardness measurement. Hard water can independently have a high or low alkalinity, and can independently have a high or low pH. By definition the three things are not related. So measuring pH will not tell you anything about water hardness. You would need a separate test to measure hardness.

Another important note is that boiling will not reduce the hardness of water. The minerals will not evaporate out. The carbonates in the water can evaporate, but only by an amount equal to the ratio of water that evaporates, which is pretty much zero. The alkalinity of boiled water can decrease (and therefore so can the pH) but once cooled it will go back to what it was before assuming the original measurement was taken correctly and no other minerals were introduced as a result of the boiling process.

Lastly, in the presence of an ion source (easily found already existing in the water, or in the pipes that carry water, or even in a well), higher temperatures can lead to harder water as more mineral ions are "picked up".

One more lastly. Lastly, due to the delivery system of tap water it has increased susceptibility to dissolved gases. As a result any water parameter (pH, Alkalinity, Hardness) should be measured after the water has been outgassed, usually after suggested time of an hour. Otherwise the measurement may not be accurate. Give it a try. You will probably see at least one, if not all, of the parameters change if you measure out of the tap vs. an hour later.

View Poll Results: Should you brew with tap water from the HOT faucet?
Sure, why not!	56	39.72%
Never!	58	41.13%
Welllllllll, that depends....	27	19.15%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

12-04-2008, 06:25 AM	#36 (permalink)
blk94f150 Senior Member Recipes Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 155	If you maintain your hot water heater, you shouldn't have a bunch of build up. Just flushing it now and then will keep the crap out and add years to the service life. I've brewed with cold and hot water with no difference in taste noted. Also most of the time you used hot water, you have to let it run to get hot. This flushes most of the water in the pipes from the heater to the faucet out before it gets hot. Mike __________________ Total noob.

12-05-2008, 05:03 PM	#37 (permalink)
WBC Brewing for 37 years Recipes Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: La Puente, CA Posts: 1,970 WBC's Gallery	I voted yes. Commercial micro breweries are doing this now, they have special water heaters that can heat to 180 F and hold it there. Any filtering is done before it enters the water heater. Home water heaters can not be adjusted that high due to design and safety concerns. If you are really worried then send a water sample from your water heater to Ward Labs for analysis. __________________ Cheers, WBC Fermentor 1: Bill's House Ale II, Fermentor 2: German Helles, Fermentor 3: Bill's Schworzbier (Black Bier) Tap 1: Bill's House Ale II, Tap 2: German Hefewizen, Tap 3: Nut Brown Ale Future Brews: Stone IPA Clone, Blonde Ale, Budvar Clone, Newcastle Clone New toy: Blichmann 27 gallon fermentor “If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging” “Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment”

12-05-2008, 05:19 PM	#39 (permalink)
donaldson Member Recipes Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 32 donaldson's Gallery	I've always used hot water. It just saves time mashing and sparging. I had always figured on bacteria, but then knew the boil would take care of that. But the increased hardness of the water, now that I never thought about. I've got a ph meter at home, and first things first, I'm going to test the cold and hot water ph. If there's mineral build up in the tank, I should be able to detect it, right? Hard water is more alkaline? For what it's worth: Cold water faucet: 8.10 Hot water Faucet: 7.76 Both were tested at room temperature. Water tank is about 10 years old. London's water comes from either Lake Erie or Lake Huron and is considered "moderately hard." Last edited by donaldson : 12-07-2008 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Update

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12-01-2008, 04:48 PM	#31 (permalink)
nyer Senior Member Recipes Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 356	Great, now I'm worried. I used hot tap water for the last couple of batches. So far they taste fine. I have well water with a white filter on all water going into a water softener that has those plastic beads. The cold water then has a charcoal filter and the hot doesn't. I don't really see how salt can be an issue with the type of softener I have, the salt brine is only used to clean the beads and then it's rinsed away.

12-01-2008, 10:28 PM	#33 (permalink)
GNBrews Senior Member Recipes Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 162	It's not that your going to make some nasty chemical by putting hot water through an activated carbon filter, but you really reduce it's effectiveness by doing so.

12-01-2008, 10:54 PM	#34 (permalink)
jcarson83 Senior Member Recipes Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 706 jcarson83's Gallery	I just recently quit using hot water so I haven't noticed a difference yet. I thought one day how full the tanks get with calcium and other minerals and that couldn't be good for my beer.

12-10-2008, 11:38 PM	#40 (permalink)
boredatwork Junior Member Recipes Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2	My brewing experience is pretty much close to zero, so I usually spend my time just reading posts, never replying. However, as an avid fish keeper, water chemistry is something I can chime in on. Coming from that perspective there is one fast and firm rule - never guess always test! I just wanted to clear up some terminology. pH, Alkalinity, and Hardness are all three completely different things. High pH has no scientific correlation to alkalinity or hardness and vice-versa. pH is a measure of the hydrogen concentration. Alkalinity is a measure of the ability of the water to store excess hydrogen in a bonded form that can free itself when free hydrogen is absorbed elsewhere. Alkalinity is best thought of as a measure of the ability to resist a drop in pH. Hardness is a measure of the concentration of dissolved mineral ions. "Hard water" is associated with the Hardness measurement. Hard water can independently have a high or low alkalinity, and can independently have a high or low pH. By definition the three things are not related. So measuring pH will not tell you anything about water hardness. You would need a separate test to measure hardness. Another important note is that boiling will not reduce the hardness of water. The minerals will not evaporate out. The carbonates in the water can evaporate, but only by an amount equal to the ratio of water that evaporates, which is pretty much zero. The alkalinity of boiled water can decrease (and therefore so can the pH) but once cooled it will go back to what it was before assuming the original measurement was taken correctly and no other minerals were introduced as a result of the boiling process. Lastly, in the presence of an ion source (easily found already existing in the water, or in the pipes that carry water, or even in a well), higher temperatures can lead to harder water as more mineral ions are "picked up". One more lastly. Lastly, due to the delivery system of tap water it has increased susceptibility to dissolved gases. As a result any water parameter (pH, Alkalinity, Hardness) should be measured after the water has been outgassed, usually after suggested time of an hour. Otherwise the measurement may not be accurate. Give it a try. You will probably see at least one, if not all, of the parameters change if you measure out of the tap vs. an hour later.