Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Boil Size
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-19-2007, 07:11 PM   #1
jaa2m
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 20
Default Boil Size

Hi all,

In a passing conversation with the LHBS guru, he mentioned that the size of the boil makes a difference in the amount of hops you use. I wanted to understand the difference in a 3 gallon boil and a 5 gallon boil. Is there a saturation point or somehting that makes the difference? I base most of my recipes off 3 gallon boils but end up doing 5-6 gallon boils.

Thanks!

__________________
jaa2m is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 07:14 PM   #2
Soulive
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Soulive's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Middle of NJ
Posts: 4,331
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Bigger boils = better utilization. You get more out of the hops, the more wort you boil...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-5.html

__________________
Cheers!


===================
Green Lane Brewing
===================

Primary = Evan!'s Special Bitter
On Deck = EdWort's Porter / American Amber


EdWort's Haus Pale Ale Count
Soulive is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 08:01 PM   #3
Funkenjaeger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Funkenjaeger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,637
Liked 9 Times on 7 Posts

Default

You really ought to be adjusting your hops if you're taking 3-gal-boil recipes and doing a full boil. It's very easy to see the change if you stick the recipe in brewing software (such as beersmith) and change the boil size. Based on a quick check, it appears that taking a 3-gallon recipe and doing a full boil will increase bitterness (IBU's) by about 50%, which is very significant.

__________________
Funkenjaeger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 10:08 PM   #4
homebrewer_99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
homebrewer_99's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atkinson (near the Quad Cities), IL
Posts: 17,951
Liked 87 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulive21
Bigger boils = better utilization. You get more out of the hops, the more wort you boil...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-5.html
Sorry, but that's not true...

Right there in your reference it states: "hop utilization decreases with increasing wort gravity. The higher concentration of sugars makes it more difficult for the isomerized alpha acids to dissolve."

The important factor for bitterness extraction is the gravity.

In Charlie P's TCJOHB it states the MAXIMUM hop bitterness extraction of 30% is achieved at a gravity of 1.040.

1 lb of DME in 1 gal of water with 1 oz of hops is approximately 1.040.
Supersizing that to 5 gal and 5 lbs of DME would be the same (approximate)gravity. Adding more malt lowers the utilization.
__________________
HB Bill
homebrewer_99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 10:32 PM   #5
Mutilated1
Beer Drenched Executioner
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Mutilated1's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hoover, Alabama USA, Alabama
Posts: 2,195
Liked 35 Times on 26 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I think by bigger boils he means "More Gallons In The Kettle" not "More Gravity In The Wort". Read the reference again. He's right.

__________________
Mutilated1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 10:39 PM   #6
Funkenjaeger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Funkenjaeger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,637
Liked 9 Times on 7 Posts

Default

homebrewer_99, I'm not quite sure I understand your point. At first glance it seems you are arguing the same point he was.

On closer inspection of Soulive's post, I guess there is one ambiguity - bigger boils at the same gravity do not mean increased utilization, but a bigger boil of a given recipe (with a certain amount of fermentables) would indeed increase utilization as compared to a more concentrated boil of the same recipe. Reading his response, it seems to me the "of a given recipe" was assumed, given the context of the original question, which was specifically asking about different boil sizes of a given recipe.

__________________
Funkenjaeger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 11:09 PM   #7
malkore
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
malkore's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 6,922
Liked 33 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

homebrewer is just clarifying that even a full boil might have lower hop utilization if its a really big beer...like a barley wine or something.

basically its the gravity within the volume, not the volume alone.

__________________
Malkore
Primary: English Mild
On tap: Pale Ale, Lancelot's Wheat, English Brown Ale, Steam Beer, HoovNuts IPA
Bottled: MOAM, Braggot, Raspberry Melomel, Merlot, Apfelwein, Pyment, Sweet mead, Cabernet
Gal in 2009: 27, Gal in 2010: 34, Gal in 2011: 13, Gal in 2012: 10
malkore is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 11:10 PM   #8
homebrewer_99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
homebrewer_99's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atkinson (near the Quad Cities), IL
Posts: 17,951
Liked 87 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

OK, I think you guys misunderstand my point...

His comment was: "Bigger boils = better utilization. You get more out of the hops, the more wort you boil..."

If a recipe calls for 8 lbs of DME (in 5 gals of water) the hop utilization will drop because it is a high gravity brew. Conversely, if only 4 lbs of DME is boiled in 5 gal of water with the same amount of hops the brew would seem overhopped (when infact it is really under-malted as in a good balance).

My point here is the extraction of the bitterness is maximized (at 30%) when 1 lb of malt is boiled in 1 gal of water with 1 oz of hops for a period of 60 mins (per Papazian's TCJOHB, 3rd Ed, Hop Utilization Chart, page 258), and utilization (bitterness extraction) is reduced the higher the gravity of the wort.

I am sure I'm misunderstanding "something", but this is how it is stated in the book.

As I see it the simple math would be to divide the smaller number by the larger to get the numbers you need to downsize the water/malt/hop requirements/measurements to keep the brew balanced.

__________________
HB Bill
homebrewer_99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 11:11 PM   #9
Joker
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Joker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Orygun
Posts: 1,954
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I think people are saying the same thing in different ways.

__________________
Joker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-19-2007, 11:13 PM   #10
homebrewer_99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
homebrewer_99's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atkinson (near the Quad Cities), IL
Posts: 17,951
Liked 87 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryA
I think people are saying the same thing in different ways.
Hey, anything's possible...
__________________
HB Bill
homebrewer_99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
boil size Rhyno79 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 02-12-2008 07:55 PM
Boil size PearlJamNoCode Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 11-20-2007 05:59 PM
Boil size Cos Extract Brewing 13 09-16-2007 02:41 PM
boil size? scottmc Extract Brewing 4 11-05-2006 03:40 PM
boil size? rflach1 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 02-08-2006 10:02 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS