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Old 09-06-2012, 08:21 AM   #11
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So I'm up in the middle of the night and thought of this thread while listening to grain bill discussion on basic brewing podcast. Thought I'd ad be sure to use a pilsner malt extract. As someone else said without a lot of tweaking you'll be making a blonde, not a pils.

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Old 08-26-2013, 09:12 PM   #12
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Only bumping this bc we're considering releasing a "Pilsner" fermented w/ Cali ale.

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You're making a blonde ale, and at 70F with S-05, it will be a somewhat estery blonde ale.
I prefer fermenting a little cooler (68F), but Cali ale still comes out really clean even at 70F in my experience. If you look at White Labs' forced fermentation data, Cali ale is almost identical to WLP 800 in almost every category:

WLP 001:

Total Diacetyl: 78.12
Total 2,3-Pentanedione: 8.61
Acetaldehyde: 14.005
Ethyl Acetate: 17.46
1-Propanol: 37.23
Isoamyl Alcohol: 90.185

WLP 800:

Total Diacetyl: 70.06
Total 2,3-Pentanedione: 11.44
Acetaldehyde: 13.6
Ethyl Acetate: 18.82
1-Propanol: 34.83
Isoamyl Alcohol: 116.93

Not saying there are no other differences contributing to authentic Pils flavor, but Cali ale is indeed capable of being very very clean. I've been brewing many lager-like beers w/ it for years and even some highly trained palates can't taste the difference.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:15 PM   #13
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Another fun Cali ale factoid, especially if leaning towards a more German style Pils w/ more focus on hops, Cali ale is very good at retaining IBUs into the final product.

Not sure if this link will work, but the difference is pretty significant with an over 20 IBU difference between WLP 029 and WLP 001.

http://205.153.117.170/YMReports/upload/Reports/Graphs/WLP029_WLP810_WLP080_WLP940_WLP001_WLP830_WLP051_I BU%20One%20Page.pdf

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Old 08-27-2013, 04:29 PM   #14
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WLP001 is indeed an exceptionally clean ale yeast, but I have never had a beer made with it that tastes remotely close to a true lager, regardless of ferm temp.

We're talking about two entirely different species of yeast, at least a 10F difference in fermentation temp, and a kinetically much slower fermentation process. All of this leads to a different carboxylic acid profile, less total acid production, and as a result less flavor esters. The technical specs you posted don't tell the whole story.

Sounds like you've talked yourself into beliving that WLP001 will produce an acceptable German Pilsner, but IMO it is nothing more than a crude facsimile if not cold-fermented with saccharomyces pastorianus.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
The technical specs you posted don't tell the whole story.
Totally agree. I was mostly responding to the idea that WLP 001 doesn't ferment exceptionally clean even up to ~70F.

Quote:
Sounds like you've talked yourself into beliving that WLP001 will produce an acceptable German Pilsner, but IMO it is nothing more than a crude facsimile if not cold-fermented with saccharomyces pastorianus.
Again I'm not saying there aren't clearly some differences, but I can guarantee you a well done Pils recipe fermented correctly w/ WLP 001 makes a damn good beer...especially when lagering isn't an option as is the case for many homebrewers.
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