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Old 04-30-2008, 07:07 PM   #1
maltMonkey
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Default Bicarbonate

Does bicarbonate (in water) go by another name? I'm trying to figure out how much we have in our local water but this is all that's in the report provided by the city (sorry about the ugly copy and paste):

2007 Average Chemical Analysis of Treated Water

Constituents Level Units MDL MCL

Aluminum <0.01 mg/L 0.01
Ammonia-N 0.53 mg/L 0.007
Antimony <2.5 μg/L 2.5 6
Arsenic <1 μg/L 1 10
Barium 0.047 mg/L 0.005 2
Beryllium <1 μg/L 1 4
Bromide 0.04 mg/L 0.02
Cadmium 2 μg/L 1 5
Calcium 25.7 mg/L 0.01
Calcium Hardness 64 mg/L 0.02
Chloride 114 mg/L 5
Chlorine Residual, Combined 1.9 mg/L 0.05
Chromium <1 μg/L 1 100
Copper <0.005 mg/L 0.005 TT
Cyanide <5 μg/L 5 200
Fluoride 0.33 mg/L 0.01 4
Haloacetic Acid 11.7 μg/L 2 60
Hydrogen Sulfide <0.1 mg/L 0.1
Iron <0.005 mg/L 0.005
Langlier Corrosivity Index 0.32 LCI
Lead <1 μg/L 1 TT
Magnesium 13.9 mg/L 0.05
Manganese <0.001 mg/L 0.001
Mercury <0.1 μg/L 0.1 2
Nickel <5 μg/L 5
Nitrate-N 0.66 mg/L 0.01 10
Nitrite/Nitrate-N 0.66 mg/L 0.02 10
Nitrite-N <0.01 mg/L 0.01 1
Ortho Phosphate-P 0.03 mg/L 0.01
Partial Alkalinity (as CaCO3) <1 mg/L 1
pH 8.7 pH UNITS
Potassium 4.9 mg/L 0.05
Selenium <2 μg/L 2 50
Silica 7.5 mg/L 0.05
Silver <0.01 mg/L 0.01
Sodium 92 mg/L 0.1
Specific Conductance 673 μmhos/cm² 2
Strontium 0.288 mg/L 0.005
Sulfate 62 mg/L 5
Temperature 14.7 ° C 0.1
Thallium <1.7 μg/L 1.7 2
Total Alkalinity (as CaCO3) 99 mg/L 2
Total Dissolved Solids 380 mg/L 10
Total Hardness (as CaCO3) 122 mg/L 1
Total Organic Carbon 2.5 mg/L 0.1
Total Phosphorus-P 0.06 mg/L 0.03
Total Solids 401 mg/L 10
Total Trihalomethanes 22 μg/L 2 80
Turbidity 0.15 NTU 0.1 TT
Vanadium <0.002 mg/L 0.002
Zinc <0.005 mg/L 0.005



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Old 04-30-2008, 07:10 PM   #2
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"Total Alkalinity (as CaCO3) 99 mg/L 2" tells you the carbonates expressed as concentration of calcium carbonate, bicarbonates are twice as strong i think. CaCO3 (calcium carbonate is chalk) NaHCO3 (sodium bicarbonate is baking soda) for the same number of molecules of each the NaHCO3 adds twice as much buffering power compared to CaCO3. of course the calcium in the CaCO3 impacts the mash chemistry and so does the sodium from the NaHCO3.



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Old 04-30-2008, 07:16 PM   #3
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Wow--thanks very much. I am not a chemist or a water guy (as you might have guessed)....what would I use to take out the bicarbonates, or is that even possible?

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Old 04-30-2008, 07:25 PM   #4
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I think carbonates are very difficult to remove, I would just add something to acidify the mash to achieve the right Ph. your water seems fairy mild in most respects (the sodium seems a little high) everything else looks like you can easily achieve the desired profile with water salt additions for any style of beer aside from maybe pilsener which almost needs distilled water.

but im not a chemist most of my knowledge of this stuff is from john palmers how to brew. If you want to get into water chemistry I recommend reading john palmers stuff and getting a good brewing program like promash which makes calculating water additions really easy.

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Old 04-30-2008, 07:39 PM   #5
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For pH I always use the 5.2 buffer, so no worries there. I'm trying to do a side-by-side comparison of English pale ales--one with Burton on Trent water treatment and one without to see if I can tell that much of a difference. I was planning on just throwing in the Burton water salts, but in reading "Designing Great Beers" it was mentioned that the water there has no bicarbonates and that you should eliminate them if you really want to replicate the water.

If they're difficult to remove I probably just won't worry about it though.

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Old 04-30-2008, 08:06 PM   #6
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my promash program says burton on trent has a profile of:
Ca 268ppm
Mg 62ppm
Na 30ppm
SO4 638ppm
Cl 36ppm
HCO3 141ppm
the defining character of the water seems to be high sulfates (hop crispness I think)

to mimic burton on trent. if i entered your water properly into promash it looks like you need 2.8grams per gallon of gypsum and 1.5 grams per gallon of epsom salts, your sodium and chloride are a little high but i think its good enough.

as i said earlier im not an expert some hopefully someone else will chime in and confirm that I did this right or tell me if i screwed up.



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