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Old 09-04-2013, 03:02 PM   #1
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Default Assistance with incremental feeding

I'm sure this has been talk to death somewhere, but I haven't been able to find anything definitive on it, so here goes.

I am really wanting to try a 120 min clone, and have a couple unanswered questions.

During incremental feeding how do you calculate the OG during dextrose additions? I saw another post saying 1 6oz bag is about 2.85 gravity points. Is there a way for me to find out specifically for my beer, since I'm assuming every batch can be a bit different.

Second, I am only wanting to get it to around 15-16%, shooting for an adjusted OG of about 1.150 or so, and wanting to finish on the drier side. Will WLP001 be able to handle that much or is a second starter of WLP099 still probably going to be a good idea?

Also, just another general question but relates to this. If my FG ends too high for my preference what is a good way to get it to drop a bit? Will the continued dextrose help it dry out?

Thanks for reading!

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:59 PM   #2
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You just keep adding the gravity points per gallon for each addition to the "running OG". 16 ounces of corn sugar will contribute 46 gravity points, you divide that by the actual number of gallons to get the points-per-gallon contribution to add to the OG. For a half-pound addition, divide that number in half.

As for the yeast thing, I have gotten the dry version of WLP001 (ie: US-05) to ~15% ABV by doubling the initial pitch. At 15% I dosed the batch with WLP099 and kept going 'til it hit 22%...

Cheers!

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:06 PM   #3
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You can assume that dextrose has a potential of 1.046, so that's for 1lb of dextrose in 1 gal of water. To figure out how much you're adding, calculate how many pounds of dextrose you're adding and the volume of beer you've got (factor in the water in the dextrose, although it shouldn't change it by that much). For instance, if you're adding 2 lbs of dextrose to a batch that will end up at 5.5gal, you're adding 2 * 46 / 5.5 = 16.7 gravity points, which you can then add to your OG.

For the WLP001, I've not taken it that high, so I can't say for sure. I've seen it listed (at least as Wyeast 1056, which is the same strain) as 11% alcohol tolerance, which will leave you quite short of your target. Now you might be able to get it a little higher than that with the incremental feeding, but I'd probably plan on adding back a high gravity strain like you mention. I believe that WLP099 is also fairly high attenuating, which would help out with getting the FG down to a reasonable level. The dextrose should help the FG some, but a lot will also depend on your yeast at that point. Not sure if a champagne yeast might help to get the FG even further down, but might be something to think about if the WLP099 doesn't get you all the way there.

Edit: ^ beat me to it!

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:49 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it! I have some other questions if you dont mind

The recipe I saw had a final abv of around 21% I believe. Obviously I don't want it quite that high so I am looking for advice how to control that.

The recipe I am looking to do is:

"(quoted from scottland I believe, tried to PM with no luck )
17lbs 2*row
1lb Victory (1.25lbs of Amber would be closer)
4oz Crystal 60 (get rid of this if you use amber malt)
5oz Amarillo
4oz Simcoe
3oz Warrior All hops added continuously throughout the boil.

Target OG (pre*sugar): 1.100 or so

WLP007 until the gravity drops under 1.020, then WLP099 Super High Gravity

10lbs dextrose added slowly once the WLP099 is added (6oz doses).

Dry hopped with 3oz each Simcoe and Amarillo in a secondary. (1oz Simcoe & 1oz Amarillo addedonce a week for 3 weeks) "


What do you think as far as mash temps are concerned? I was thinking around 148 to get plenty of fermentables out of the grains.

Also, to control the alcohol content but still have it finish not overly sweet I was thinking of going for a FG of around 1.025, does that sound ok? And as far as controlling the FG, should I pitch less 099 initially to control how far down it goes? Would less dextrose additions keep the adjusted OG at an appropriate level and keep my target FG obtainable?

Any advice on this would be amazing!

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Old 09-05-2013, 01:24 AM   #5
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Sure, you can work backwards to an OG as well. The formula to do that is OG=ABV/131+FG (with FG and OG in their 1.000 form). If we assume that your FG is 1.025 and you're going for an ABV of 15, that gives you an OG of 15/131+1.025=1.140. If you get to a pre-sugar OG of 1.100 like the recipe suggests, that leaves you with 40 gravity points you need to make up. Assuming a 5 gal batch and dextrose at 46 ppg, that gives you 5*46 / 40 = 5.75lb of dextrose. You could also change the grain amounts and leave it at 10lb of sugar, which might help keeping the FG low, but for that we'd need to know a general efficiency you normally get. You also might start running into the point where you're adding too much sugar to the batch relative to the malt content.

As far as the mash temp, I'd think something like 148 would be good, since you'll want to make sure you've got plenty of easily fermentable products around. You might also want to think about adding a mashout step if you normally don't, just to try to wring as much gravity out of your grain as possible. I'd plan on still adding a good deal of 099. The amount of yeast really won't influence how far down it ferments, and you'll want to make sure that you've got plenty of yeast to handle that gravity. Remember that you'll be adding the yeast into the fermentation when there's already about 10% alcohol, so the yeast is already going into a pretty intense environment.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:24 AM   #6
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Great, thank you for all the awesome info! 170 is the standard mash out temp correct? I just do a single infusion due to the simplicity of it.

Also, what are your suggestions if I get a stuck fermentation? Like if it gets stuck in the .030-.040 range? I have heard working with this 099 can be kinda tricky. Is there a reliable way to rouse it? Like a gentle stirring maybe?

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Old 09-05-2013, 06:57 AM   #7
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I think its somewhere around 170, but really its more about just making sure the grain bed gets warmed up to help extract some of the sugars from the grains and loosen everything up (at least that's what I've always heard). You'll denature the enzymes as well, but really you probably want the enzymes working as long as possible, so that won't matter as much. As far as the stuck fermentation, I've heard of people having good luck with a very gentle stirring. You could also rerack it to another vessel, like for longterm aging, and make sure to pick up plenty of the yeast from the bottom and hope they pick back up again. Otherwise, I think its mostly about starting with plenty of yeast and making sure that you oxygenate well. Assuming you start with the correct amount of yeast, I've heard you can do an additional aeration/oxygenation up to 14 hours post-pitching without any oxidation effects, so that might be something to consider as well. I've not gone nearly as high as you're trying, but there's probably quite a few people around here who have!

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:25 PM   #8
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Great! Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it. You have given me the confidence I need to give this one a shot!

Cheers!

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