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Old 01-04-2013, 09:47 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outside92129 View Post
the O2 canisters are aluminum so they're quite soft, try hitting it with a hammer and then just putting it in with the household recycle. A metal recycling place will definitely take it. Because it was O2 it's not going to be dangerous to cut - it's just air, no fuel.
That's not completely true. Pure O2 is an oxidizer and will increase the temperature of a flame and can be lit on fire. There is a reason why people on medical oxygen are told to stay away from open flames like gas stoves. They don't make oxy-acetelyne welding torches for nothing!

I wouldn't cut into the container unless you are sure that it is completely empty and even then I would be very careful.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:37 AM   #52
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yesterday i finally got to do a properly controlled experiment to confirm for my own little nerdy self the DO levels from shaking vs. injecting pure O2. purchased 20 cubic foot O2 cylinder from local welding supply, it's roughly the same size as a 5 lb CO2 cylinder. also purchased regulator, you cannot use a CO2 regulator on O2 tanks. DO meter was borrowed from my assistant brewer who works for a company that sells safety equipment and lab supplies, incl DO meters, he confirmed for me that the meter had been calibrated at their shop two days before.

10 gallon batch cooled to 68F pitch temp, OG of 1.066, split into two buckets. for first bucket*, i did my old standard down-on-one-knee bucket sloshing with frequent burping until blowoff hole in lid was no longer visibly pulling a suction between burps. probably sloshed at good clip for four minutes? then removed lid and tested with meter, reading showed 7.97 ppm of DO. this jibed remarkably well with what i had read, that the theoretical max for agitation-method is about 8ppm. (someday i'd like to build a mechanical agitator and give it like 30 minutes and see how much higher it goes.) for second bucket i used pure oxygen. previously i had played around with the airstone submerged in bucket of sani water to get a sense of what would be a good psi to see on the regulator. i decided on 13.5 psi. with the airstone sunk to bottom of the ferm bucket, i turned on gas and timed for two minutes. DO meter read just over 8ppm. i gave it another 60 seconds and it read 12.20 ppm. the literature i've seen mostly converges on 10 ppm as a good minimum DO for ale worts. too much O2 is, i think, only really a concern for packaging breweries who don't want any lingering O2 in the bottles to cause staling and stability issues. i'm a pub brewer so i don't care if i'm a bit above 10ppm.

* sloshing bucket (the first tested) was actually the second filled. evap rate from boil was higher than expected so i ended up with probably only 4 gal in the sloshing bucket, which is an important here to the DO test conducted because you can slosh the liquid a heck of a lot better when it's only 3/4 full than when it's almost completely full.

next step will be to add my flow meter to the oxy tank rig. i picked up a cheapo thorpe tube style flow meter from welder supply for @ $15. with this i will have a quantitative sense of how much oxygen by volume i'm actually using in those 3 minutes. if it's crazy high, like 1/4 of the tank or whatever, i'll experiment with using lower psi for longer time.

another test i'd like to conduct is the aquarium pump method. this is attractive since air is free. only downside is having to come back and remove aeration after an hour or two or however long it happens to take. also, i'd probably want to rig up some type of filtration for air, so that's further assembly time. but i have a friend with a degree in microbiology and he's pretty confident that for brewing purposes, i could use a pretty simple filtration method, like an inline pvc pipe filled with cotton balls that i've spritzed with alcohol.

pic of 2-micron airstone used:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/c...-2-micron.html

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Old 01-28-2013, 06:04 PM   #53
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mechanical agitators are used in the waste water plants to raise DO in the effluent. also blowers are used which force air thru large diffusers much like the oxygen stone is used in homebrewing. all those bugs used to breakdown the poop need oxygen too...LOL!
the splash & tumble method is used by water treatment plants to remove hydrogen sulfide as well as helping to add oxygen to the water.

as a home brewer i used the shake and pitch method for many years with great results only because i was cheap.

eventually evolving to Y. starters & oxygen diffusion revealed that with the heightened DO from diffusion the yeast showed almost immediate signs of fermentation.

appreciated your results from your DO tests.......thanx

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Old 01-29-2013, 08:19 PM   #54
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I think it's usually recommended to use a .5 micron stone for oxygen. That's what I use based on advice from HBT. I'd be interested to see what your ppm would be after your first 2 minutes with a.5.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:31 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmodog51
wonder what the advantage would be to have a 5 lb O2 bottle?
i've heard that local fire stations will fill them for free...at least my neighbor who was a diver said F.D. filled his tamks as long as they were current.

maybe worth the investment on a used bottle for those who use copious amounts of O2.

GD
I doubt it. Firefighters use compressed air, not bottled O2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by worxman02

That's not completely true. Pure O2 is an oxidizer and will increase the temperature of a flame and can be lit on fire. There is a reason why people on medical oxygen are told to stay away from open flames like gas stoves. They don't make oxy-acetelyne welding torches for nothing!

I wouldn't cut into the container unless you are sure that it is completely empty and even then I would be very careful.
Close. O2 will not burn on its own. A gas stove is not dangerous to a med O2 user unless its leaking or there are other flammables present. It's better to err on the side of caution though. Gas stove lit + O2 + say, fingernail polish remover being used in the same room could make a boom.

Cutting an disposable O2 tank with a hacksaw is almost completely foolproof, just don't do it if you smell a gas leak or just filled your lawnmower and reek of gasoline.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:08 PM   #56
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yes, agree, 0.5 micron should in theory perform better. stay tuned!

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Old 01-30-2013, 03:51 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmodog51
wonder what the advantage would be to have a 5 lb O2 bottle?
i've heard that local fire stations will fill them for free...at least my neighbor who was a diver said F.D. filled his tamks as long as they were current.

maybe worth the investment on a used bottle for those who use copious amounts of O2.

GD

I doubt it. Firefighters use compressed air, not bottled O2.


you are SO right! what was I think of????

GD

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Old 01-30-2013, 05:15 PM   #58
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Clarification: CO2 is sold in pounds, but O2 is sold in cubic feet. this is because CO2 liquifies in the bottle, but O2 does not. now, in the big bulk tanks that the distributor uses to store O2, it *does* liquify. but not in the tank sizes sold to the end consumer.

so actually you won't see "five pound oxygen tanks" anywhere. i believe the confusion arises from the fact that a 20cf O2 tank is roughly the size of a 5 lb CO2 tank.

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Old 04-24-2013, 11:20 PM   #59
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Can anyone tell me how many batches you get out of the small oxygen tanks from HD?

Funny story.. I used one last night for the first time and my wort was bubbling like crazy, huge, giant bubbles. I didn't think it looked right, but what the hell. Turns out the stone wasn't tightly threaded and oxygen must have been pouring out the threads. Used the whole tank in 90 seconds!

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Old 04-25-2013, 10:44 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja09 View Post
Can anyone tell me how many batches you get out of the small oxygen tanks from HD?

Funny story.. I used one last night for the first time and my wort was bubbling like crazy, huge, giant bubbles. I didn't think it looked right, but what the hell. Turns out the stone wasn't tightly threaded and oxygen must have been pouring out the threads. Used the whole tank in 90 seconds!
When I first got my set up I didn't think the disposable tanks would last long but that was over a year ago and I'm still on my first tank. I've probably done 15 or so batches since then.
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