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Old 01-02-2012, 04:24 PM   #31
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AlterBrewer

I'm new to brewing and appreciate the alternative perspectives. It's not surprising that the more set in their ways brewers would want to rebut you point for point.

I'm currently brewing using extract but use the late addition method to increase hop utilization. It would seem the same principle would apply to boiling hops in pure water, so I thought that was really interesting. I wonder what interaction there could be between the compounds in the malt and those in the hops that would make this undesirable to some?

Also, I like the idea of using smaller batches. Currently I could probably only manage a 5-gallon batch once a month or so as I'm saving for more sophisticated equipment. Smaller batches would allow me greater variety and more experience in a shorter time. Do you tend to do 2-stage fermentation with these? If so, what vessels do you prefer for primary and secondary?

-bben

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Old 01-02-2012, 04:36 PM   #32
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If so, what vessels do you prefer for primary and secondary?

-bben
Secondary? And you said who is set in their ways?

Since it's obvious you're talking about me, I think you are putting too much thought into the reason for my "rebuttal".

A lot of what this guy is doing is not "alternative" at all. Many of us to do it regularly. As a matter of fact, I would venture that he formed his opinion of what he thinks other homebrewers find verbotten from books, not from this forum, because it's a lot of the literature that's behind the times and slow to catch up to new tecniques. Some of what he characterized as "time saving" actually takes much longer than what more experienced homerbewers are doing.

I'm the last person to care what other people do with their beer or how they make it. But I try to some extent to pass some of my knowledge of what works on to people who might have something to learn. If you want to mash flour, mix it with hop water, and ferment it more power to you.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:10 PM   #33
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It's not only a matter of whether a secondary is necessary or preferable. Depending on the vessels, the use of a secondary could allow me to start a new batch in the primary sooner. And more batches in shorter time is my goal.

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Old 01-03-2012, 03:48 AM   #34
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Oh, yes, sorry for my oversight. SG of water is 1. Thanks.

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Old 01-03-2012, 03:52 AM   #35
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AlterBrewer

I'm new to brewing and appreciate the alternative perspectives. It's not surprising that the more set in their ways brewers would want to rebut you point for point.

I'm currently brewing using extract but use the late addition method to increase hop utilization. It would seem the same principle would apply to boiling hops in pure water, so I thought that was really interesting. I wonder what interaction there could be between the compounds in the malt and those in the hops that would make this undesirable to some?

Also, I like the idea of using smaller batches. Currently I could probably only manage a 5-gallon batch once a month or so as I'm saving for more sophisticated equipment. Smaller batches would allow me greater variety and more experience in a shorter time. Do you tend to do 2-stage fermentation with these? If so, what vessels do you prefer for primary and secondary?

-bben
I have only tried secondary twice. Too much trouble for someone like me. Didn't see any clearer beer or better tasting beer. Good idea if you only have one fermenter, though, so you can ferment another batch.
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:12 AM   #36
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I think if you use a "secondary fermentation" for what it actually is then you'd see some improved results. To rack the beer to another carboy after fermentation with no additions of any adjuncts or yeast is not secondary fermentation; that is simply conditioning or a brite tank. I use secondary fermentations quite often (being I ferment in conicals this is the same vessel.) I use a secondary fermentation after primary fermentation has completed, and I'm adding another yeast to either dry out the beer or add another characteristic such as Brett or lacto. In this instance a secondary fermentation is taking place being that another yeast strain is mowing through residual sugars or more complex non-fermentables pure strains of brewers yeast can't manage. Sometimes I need to run off the primary yeast and add a yeast that has a higher alcohol resistance to finish fermentation. If I am dry hopping or adding oak I am not doing a secondary fermentation at all, but rather conditioning the finished beer.

Many here including myself have said many times over that moving beer to a separate vessel for no reason is an outdated, risky, and un-needed procedure.

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Old 01-03-2012, 06:49 AM   #37
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squirrelly

I understand that the risk of autolysis is considered low for most fermentation times, but what about getting the off flavors that could be encountered from leaving one's beer on the trub? Or is that generally discarded before fermentation?

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Old 01-03-2012, 07:06 AM   #38
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Are you referring to my method of secondary fermentation? I use stainless conicals for fermentation which allow me to harvest my yeast to re-pitch and dump the trub once fermentation is complete. By using this method I do not disturb the beer, can pressurize the fermenter with C02, and still remove any trub.

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Old 01-03-2012, 06:59 PM   #39
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I've learned a lot from the "alternative" spirits on this board, so cheers to that. However, every new brewer tends to think that they are the spearhead of a brewing revolution, so I tend to take their decrees with liberal skepticism. No offense intended...I've been guilty myself...in my case, I eventually realized that my newbie beers just weren't as great as I thought they were, so my process has gotten more traditional over the years.

I wouldn't take issue with any of your particular techniques. If it works in your brewhouse, carry on. Overall I would warn that:

(1) Taste is subjective. Others may not agree that your results hit the mark. Still others may have goals beyond a cheaper beer supply, a shorter brew day, or a "normal" taste with no "ill effects."
(2) Not all techniques scale well to other volumes, or translate well to other systems. The traditional techniques are "traditional" because they work for most people, most of the time. Everyone should feel free to pick and choose from the toolbox, but I'd be careful before insinuating that any of the tools are obsolete for everyone.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:04 PM   #40
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You said it much better than I did.

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