All my beers have....

instapman · 01-02-2011, 05:07 AM

The papery cardboard taste.... ALL of them... Some worst than others. However, this last batch tastes like I used a cardboard carboy instead of a glass carboy. I understand that HSA has some negative cardboard effects but I feel like I am careful enough when my wort is under 80 deg. I have brewed in Arkansas, Alabama and Kentucky and seems like all of my beers have a certain degree of papery/cardboard taste so I assume its not a water issue. The only other thing that I could think of is non-constant fermenting temps.... could this be my issue? I do not have a good way to control my fermentation temps other than a water bath...even that isn't the best way... I could build a fermentation cabinet.... but I'm still not convinced thats the issue.... Any suggestions?

WAdamC · 01-02-2011, 07:43 AM

Cardboard carboy? Sounds like oxygenation. probably after fermentation.

BreckBastion · 01-02-2011, 09:03 AM

What size is your siphon hose? I had taught some friends to brew and their beer would taste good right after carbing up, but within a few months would be very oxidized. I observed them using what must've been 1/2 inch diameter hose or greater for racking. This was the source of their oxidation. Since letting them know and them getting a smaller hose the problem was fixed.
A water bath is a pretty effective way to control your temps if done properly. it should keep your temp swings under a few degrees either way.
Hope that helps.

**bullinachinashop** · 01-02-2011, 09:49 AM

You said your careful below 80 degrees. What about above 80?
From what your saying, it sounds like a process problem.
Read what you can about HSA and be carefull throughout your process not to add oxygen at any time except just prior to yeast pitch.
As stated above, even an oversized siphon hose can add oxygen.
Good luck.

Bull

DrawTap88 · 01-02-2011, 01:52 PM

How long is your siphon hose? The solution to your problem could be as simple as getting a longer hose to stop splashing when racking to secondary, keg, or bottling bucket.

Calder · 01-02-2011, 04:56 PM

Sure sounds like oxygen. You need to question your complete process.

HSA (HOT side aeration) This is when it is above 80 F (temp is just a guess). Before the boil I don't think it has much affect, a lot of people splash their beer during the mashing and sparging process without much of a problem. I think the boil gets rid of any oxygen introduced at that time, minimizing any affect it has. But once the boil is done (adding water, or ice, to cool the wort), or even during the boil (such as adding water during the boil to top it up) can introduce oxygen.

Once the boil has started, the only time to introduce oxygen is when the yeast is pitched, in order to support yeast reproduction. Don't add any top-up water to the beer once it's started (exception; needs to be boiled and cooled to get the oxygen out of the water).

What fermenters are you using, and how long are you keeping the beer in them?

You need to go over your complete process and see where you could be introducing oxygen.

MVKTR2 · 01-03-2011, 04:16 AM

HSA is quite rare, and you say you're careful not to introduce oxygen into your hot wort. I've aged less than 5.5% beer upwards of 2 years with no detection of oxidation... and I pour my hot post boil wort from my 10 gal pot into two smaller pots for chilling. HSA is simply a rare occurance in brewing.

The more likely problem is the introduction of oxygen post fermentation. I'd guess it's occuring in the transferring process/bottling or kegging process.

As a note about the post brewing side, this is the area professional brewers/breweries have problems. There's much talk from the industry about how during the 80s and for much of the 90s many young breweries had trouble with 'shelf-stable' brews because of the introduction of oxygen during bottling.

One last note is your pallette may simply be very attuned to detecting oxidation. In some way all flavors are this way. In food think of how some people love hot stuff and others just can't take it... it's not because they aren't tough but because they have a more sensitive pallette relative to hot food. Brewers tend to use Diacetyl as an example of this. Some people detect diacetyl much more easily than others.

Schlante & Good luck finding the problem,
Phillip

instapman · 01-03-2011, 04:32 AM

So maybe the "cardboard carboy" was an exageration...I was typing out of frustration. I am fairly critical of my beers. My beers are pretty good, with the exception of this strange lingering cardboard/metal taste I cant get rid of.

I use 1/2" tubing for all of my transfers. I couldn't imagine this would be the issue since the pros surely use much larger diameters for theirs.
I try not to splash as much as anyone else does....

I use glass carboys and buckets for fomenter's. The only beer that has not has the taste of paper or cardboard was my first beer I made when I went all grain. I have brewed 15-20 beers since and have this issue in almost all of those beers. It doesn't seem to matter which fermenter I use.

The taste of said cardboard box seems to be in the aftertaste. The beers are great to look at, smell, and taste...its mostly in the aftertaste. There is some cardboard/metallic presence to it.

Is oxygen the only thing could produce this taste?

If I have an oxygen issue, and I don't aireate, why would it be necessary to aireate at all...since there is too much o2 anyway?

It takes me almost 1 hr to cool my wort (don't ask). I am currently building a Brutus style system that will make my brew day go much quicker...mostly because of the new system itself but also the sweet cooling system that will go along with it. (don't ask...yet)

Could the cooling time have any effect on the taste as far as the unwanted cardboard is concerned???

I am also concerned about the fermentation temps...Could this be an underlying issue?

Basically I am pretty solid on my system with the exception of cooling and fermenting. Most of you are saying that it is an oxygen issue but it is hard for me to think that is the case since I am so anal about such things, but I could be wrong...I am brewing Saturday and I will take EXTRA care not to splash at any part of the brewing process. All other aspects will remain the same as usual....

BreckBastion · 01-03-2011, 04:42 AM

OK. well 1/2" tubing. I think you should just get yourself some smaller stuff to rack with. If that's not your problem, then go back to it. I bet it is though.

DrawTap88 · 01-03-2011, 02:17 PM

1/2" tubing is fine. Now how long is it? Does it reach to the bottom of your fermenter/bucket/carboy, etc.?