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Old 10-29-2008, 06:13 AM   #1
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Default Advice on Drying out a Saison

I'm looking for some advice on how best to dry out my Saison. OG was 1.068 and I just measured my first reading ten days later at 1.020. I think that comes out to damn near 70% attenuation, which is good, but I'd like this thing to be bone dry. I used White Labs 565 (Saison I) which appears to top out at 75%. The sample was quite good, nice esters and a delicate malt profile with just a bit of sweetness.

Should I make a 1056 starter or could I re-hydrate 05 and add to a starter? Should I pitch it right to the primary? I also have some Montrachet left over.

This is my first Saison and the first time I plan to pitch more than once on a beer. I'll plan to let it sit another week and then make a call. Recipe attached as bsm.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

File Type: bsm Saison du Wood.bsm (17.0 KB, 39 views)
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwood View Post
Should I make a 1056 starter or could I re-hydrate 05 and add to a starter? Should I pitch it right to the primary? I also have some Montrachet left over.
I'm about to brew my first Saison too. I've read a lot about it, and theory says, you should rise the temp towards the end of fermentation to 75-80F, and if it doesn't help, add new yeast - 1056 or wine yeast, in a pint-sized active starter.
I wonder if it is possible also to use lager yeast, they are quite attentuative...

I think you should pitch to primary, but I think I will decant to secondary first, to save the clean Saison slurry for next batch.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr View Post
I'm about to brew my first Saison too. I've read a lot about it, and theory says, you should rise the temp towards the end of fermentation to 75-80F, and if it doesn't help, add new yeast - 1056 or wine yeast, in a pint-sized active starter.
I wonder if it is possible also to use lager yeast, they are quite attentuative...

I think you should pitch to primary, but I think I will decant to secondary first, to save the clean Saison slurry for next batch.
That theory holds water for the typical abbey yeast but with the saison yeasts, you want them to ferment warm from the get go since the esters and phenols are generally part of the desired flavor profile. (one reason that you always see folks recommend brewing saisons in the summer for brewers w/out temp control).

OP: I'd keep your temps up and let the yeast do it's thing. I had a similar experience w/565 fermented in the mid-upper 80s where it held around 1.018 until about day 10 then dropped over the next 4 days down below 1.010. If you decide to pitch something else, neutral and high attenuation would be what I'd look for so US05/1056/wlp001 or nottingham fit the bill.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by brewt00l View Post
That theory holds water for the typical abbey yeast but with the saison yeasts, you want them to ferment warm from the get go since the esters and phenols are generally part of the desired flavor profile. (one reason that you always see folks recommend brewing saisons in the summer for brewers w/out temp control).
I ramped it right up into the 80's and have had great results so far.

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Originally Posted by brewt00l View Post
OP: I'd keep your temps up and let the yeast do it's thing. I had a similar experience w/565 fermented in the mid-upper 80s where it held around 1.018 until about day 10 then dropped over the next 4 days down below 1.010. If you decide to pitch something else, neutral and high attenuation would be what I'd look for so US05/1056/wlp001 or nottingham fit the bill.
I'll keep the temps up and maybe give a good swirl when I get home today. I might have to get a heating pad as it's starting to cool down here now at night a bit. It was 80s and 90s during the day in the garage and 60s at night. The carboy has gotten up to 85F but it's gotten down to 68 at night when it was wrapped up.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:38 PM   #5
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I heard an interview with Chris White of White Labs where he said that Saison I was intended to be used as a multi-pitch yeast with another strain. Apparently that strain doesn't always fully attenuate, and while its "Belgiany" profile is excellent, it needs a secondary pitch (I believe he recommended WLP001 or even a champagne yeast). The White Labs Saison II was specifically developed for a higher attenuation and drier finish (though it may not be a "funky" as Saison I).

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Old 10-29-2008, 09:32 PM   #6
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Most of the problems with "stuck" saisons are the temps. An interview with Jamil said that you could have a saison take 3 months at 70 and three days at 85. It all depends on the temp with that yeast.

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Old 10-29-2008, 10:35 PM   #7
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Most of the problems with "stuck" saisons are the temps. An interview with Jamil said that you could have a saison take 3 months at 70 and three days at 85. It all depends on the temp with that yeast.
Maybe a heating pad is in order now that it's starting to cool down a bit here.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:58 PM   #8
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I made a Saison This summer with the intent of letting it ferment in the garage so it could ferment in the 80's. Well it only got that warm a few times. Mine got stuck at 1.020 for a while, but I just let it go. About three weeks ago I took a reading and it was finally down to 1.009. If your in a hurry do the additional yeast thing, otherwise be patient and let it go. It will get there.

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Old 10-30-2008, 03:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Mine got stuck at 1.020 for a while, but I just let it go. About three weeks ago I took a reading and it was finally down to 1.009
So, finally, how long was the fermentation?
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:53 PM   #10
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So, finally, how long was the fermentation?
I've heard of them going for two months or longer. I've got no issue with letting it sit other than the fact that my whirlpool got messed up and I ended up with a ton of break material in the fermentor. I'm not sure that having the beer sit on the break for that long will be all that bad but I've just never had a beer sit for two months on that much turb and I'd be a bit concerned about off flavors developing.
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