Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Additions - Spices, Fruit, Whatever!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-24-2011, 01:10 AM   #1
bpac
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 33
Default Additions - Spices, Fruit, Whatever!

Hey Guys,

I have 6 brews under my belt now, so I'm starting to really understand how this whole thing works, which is totally awesome. Please correct me if I'm misinformed, but the way I understand it when it comes to hop additions: ~60 minutes creates a bitter taste, ~25 minutes adds nice hop flavor, ~5 adds aroma, and Dry Hopping is pure aroma, no flavor.

Assuming this is correct, would the same logic work with different additions? For example, adding some spices in at the last minute or in the fermenter to add some aroma or adding fruit around 15-20 mins to impart the flavor?

I'm kind of trying to put together something experimental, my own personal home made recipe, and I've kind of hit a wall.

__________________

Primary: Surly Furious Clone, Dark Mild, Apfelwein
Conditioning: Nutella Brown Ale, Saison
Drinking: Oatmeal Stout, PSA IPA
Next: Hefe, and an Experiment

bpac is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2011, 01:26 AM   #2
MachineShopBrewing
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montrose, MN
Posts: 1,053
Liked 66 Times on 53 Posts
Likes Given: 38

Default

I'm thinking adding spices at any time would add flavor. I'm not a chemist, but I think the hop flavors are more volatile than regular spices.

__________________
MachineShopBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2011, 06:48 PM   #3
Stardust
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lewisville, Texas
Posts: 145
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpac View Post
Assuming this is correct, would the same logic work with different additions? For example, adding some spices in at the last minute or in the fermenter to add some aroma or adding fruit around 15-20 mins to impart the flavor?
Add fruit to secondary unless you are brewing a pumpkin ale. Boiling the fruit can cause pectin to be released into the wort which would be a less than optimal environment for a good end product. Some brewers advocate freezing fruit if it's fresh before adding to the secondary. Freezing causes crystals inside the cell to form which in turn ruptures the cell walls. If you are using canned fruit there is no need to worry about sanitation as this was done at canning. When using fresh fruit, make sure it is washed very well to remove pesticides and such.

For what it's worth here is my experience with spices...when boiled with the wort the aroma and flavour becomes diminished if boiled for the full 60-90 minutes. I have found that I prefer adding spices at flame out as well as extracts such as vanilla.
__________________

Reason: clarity
Stardust is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2011, 06:59 PM   #4
gregger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 375
Liked 13 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

During the holidays I made a stout with ginger, cinnamon, nutmeg, and vanilla. It was perfect and tasted a little like a gingerbread cookie, but not too harsh. I added spices (but no vanilla) at flame out and before cooling. And I also added more spices including my vanilla into my secondary where it sat for two weeks.

Quote:
For what it's worth here is my experience with spices...when boiled with the wort the aroma and flavour becomes diminished if boiled for the full 60-90 minutes. I have found that I prefer adding spices at flame out as well as extracts such as vanilla.
+1, as well as adding to the secondary or when bottling for me.
__________________
Primary 1: Whiskey Stout
Primary 2: Apfelwein
Secondary:EMPTY
Bottled: Oat Red Ale, Peach Wheat, Strawberry Dirty Blonde Ale, Brown Sugar IPA

In line: Cucumber Summer Blonde, Kona Pipeline Porter Clone, Bacon Porter

The best yet: St. Nick's Dirty Stout (Vanilla Gingerbread Stout) - guessed at the recipe when boiling, didn't write anything down... DAMN.
gregger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2011, 08:49 PM   #5
Hopheader
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 274
Default

You have it 'fairly straight' on the hop additions as a generalization. Basically, the longer hops boil, the more bitterness that goes into your wort. Basically. Also, there are the alpha-acid % ratings to take into account. Generally, higher-AA hops result in higher IBU (or HBU) ratings. The same can be said for AMOUNT of hops used. Dry hop, yes, wonderful aroma. Generally same with 'flame out' hops. Just make sure you get onto your chilling as promptly as you can. Then there's "First Wort Hopping", where you add (generally traditional German) hops to your first runnings and start your boil there.

Fruit addition: yes to secondary is my vote. And ALWAYS be careful of sanitization. Freezing is good because, yes, it helps break down cell walls and the fruit can ferment better/faster. Some guys will boil their crushed fruit for awhile to sanitize it, others will put 'an amount' of campden tablets in, and smush it up and let sit for a bit before adding. Better to be safe than infected. (of course your beer has already generated alcohol at that point, too, which will help keep some nasties at bay).

Spices are always tricky. I generally add MY spices at the boil, in the form of a pre-made tea rather than just tossing the spices in. Liquid to liquid. I add things like coconut and vanilla to the secondary.

Good luck!

J

__________________
Primary: Dunkelweizen
Secondary: BrewHouse IPA
Forgotten about: Samichlaus
Keg: Special Bitter
Keg 2: American Barleywine
Hopheader is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2011, 09:21 PM   #6
badnewsblair
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stardust View Post
Some brewers advocate freezing fruit if it's fresh before adding to the secondary. Freezing causes crystals inside the cell to form which in turn ruptures the cell walls. If you are using canned fruit there is no need to worry about sanitation as this was done at canning.
Should frozen fruit be added to the secondary while it is still frozen? Is there any concern with cold shocking the yeast that is still active in the secondary?
__________________
badnewsblair is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2011, 03:36 PM   #7
bpac
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 33
Default

I did a secondary once, and ended up oxidizing my beer and making it taste awful. would there be any harm in adding fruit to primary after the vigorous fermentation is over? or is that more harmful than helpful?

__________________

Primary: Surly Furious Clone, Dark Mild, Apfelwein
Conditioning: Nutella Brown Ale, Saison
Drinking: Oatmeal Stout, PSA IPA
Next: Hefe, and an Experiment

bpac is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-02-2011, 09:22 PM   #8
Stardust
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lewisville, Texas
Posts: 145
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpac View Post
I did a secondary once, and ended up oxidizing my beer and making it taste awful. would there be any harm in adding fruit to primary after the vigorous fermentation is over? or is that more harmful than helpful?
I believe there is concern about having fruit in primary because there is a theory that the yeast will go after the simpler sugars in the fruit rather than the more complex barley sugars. But adding it two weeks after you pitch the yeast may be ok. If you do this, consider leaving the beer in the fermenter for 4 more weeks to give the yeast a chance to clean up after themselves and give the fruit time to impart its fruity goodness. You will end up with the beer in the fermenter for a total of 6 weeks.

I've never talked to someone who has oxidized their beer by moving to secondary. What happened? I'm only asking to better educate myself
__________________
Stardust is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-02-2011, 10:30 PM   #9
MachineShopBrewing
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montrose, MN
Posts: 1,053
Liked 66 Times on 53 Posts
Likes Given: 38

Default

Unless you purge the next vessel with CO2, you are racking right into a carboy full of oxygen and leaving a headspace full of oxygen. Now, if you are going to have fruit to ferment the CO2 might push out the O2, but not with a regular secondary.

__________________
MachineShopBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 03:15 AM   #10
whatsleftofyou
Third Eye Pried Wide
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
whatsleftofyou's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: U.P. of MI
Posts: 600
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I've never oxidized a beer simply by moving it to secondary (even though I usually don't secondary), although purging with CO2 isn't a horrible idea either. But, let's not turn this into yet another "should you or shouldn't you secondary" thread.

The main caution of putting fruit in "primary" is that the released CO2 will drive off all of the aromas. Although, I've put fruit in after the main fermentation is complete with great results.

Back to the main question though - you may or may not get different results by adding ingredients at different times, but it depends largely on what ingredient you're talking about. Hops actually undergo chemical reactions when heated, which give off the different (and correct) profiles that you listed. Most ingredients don't do that, but that's not to say that there aren't other things that affect their presence in the final beer.

__________________
My Bar Build
Primary: Nada
Secondary: American Barleywine
On Tap: Lime Basil Wheat, Pumpkin Spice Ale, Coffee Blonde
Bottled: PB&J Sweet Stout, Rhubarb Berliner Weisse

whatsleftofyou is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding fruit to secondary, how to sanitize the fruit? 32indian General Techniques 131 11-08-2014 06:37 PM
Add fruit to primary or rack beer on top of fruit in secondary nate_ive General Techniques 71 05-28-2014 04:47 AM
Making a Fruit Beer Without any additional Fermentation from the Fruit?? (Campden?) fastricky General Techniques 29 09-06-2012 12:50 AM
Spices in Hop Bag pnh2atl General Techniques 4 08-20-2010 01:56 PM
Fruit Beer - Steep or Rack onto Fruit? Poppy360 General Techniques 11 05-14-2010 02:45 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS