New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermeneter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Adding roasted malts/barley late in mash




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2009, 02:46 PM   #1
SpanishCastleAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,384
Liked 29 Times on 29 Posts

Default Adding roasted malts/barley late in mash

I've read that some like to add the dark roasted malts (and barley) late in the mash saying that it yields a smoother flavor. Anybody experience smoother flavor from late roasted-malt additions? How late in the mash do you add them?

I'm going to be making an Oatmeal Stout soon (w/ 1.5-2 lb flaked oats) and plan to do a B-glucan rest at ~110 F, then a 2-step Hochkurz mash after that (short rest at 145 F, then up to 160 F for the remainder). Not sure when is the best time to add the RB and Chocolate malt. Tentatively was going to add them as I'm infusing up to 160...but that rest at 160 will be at least 30 minutes, prob a little longer.



__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate

Last edited by SpanishCastleAle; 11-10-2009 at 07:03 PM.
SpanishCastleAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2009, 03:11 PM   #2
homebrewer_99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
homebrewer_99's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atkinson (near the Quad Cities), IL
Posts: 17,957
Liked 80 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I do lots of reading about brewing processes and I've never heard/read about that anywhere.

If you can find the reference I'd be interested in reading it.



__________________
HB Bill
homebrewer_99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2009, 05:38 PM   #3
SpanishCastleAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,384
Liked 29 Times on 29 Posts

Default

I can't remember HB99. It might come to me if I stop thinking about it.

__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate
SpanishCastleAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2009, 05:42 PM   #4
PseudoChef
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
PseudoChef's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: West Chicago 'Burbs, IL
Posts: 3,418
Liked 101 Times on 75 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

I have done this before, but under a single infusion mash process. From the advice from a member in my club, with his experience making the roasted character less harsh, astringent, or acrid, which can sometimes develop.

I added them in the last 15 minutes of the mash, and would think that would be where I would start, even at 160.

This also helps control the mash pH a little better, since by the time you add the grains, conversion should be complete (but I don't know if this is really the case with your 145-160 combination).

__________________
PseudoChef is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2009, 07:02 PM   #5
SpanishCastleAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,384
Liked 29 Times on 29 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoChef View Post
I have done this before, but under a single infusion mash process. From the advice from a member in my club, with his experience making the roasted character less harsh, astringent, or acrid, which can sometimes develop.

I added them in the last 15 minutes of the mash, and would think that would be where I would start, even at 160.

This also helps control the mash pH a little better, since by the time you add the grains, conversion should be complete (but I don't know if this is really the case with your 145-160 combination).
Thanks PseudoChef. I had considered the mash pH variable...I won't have added the most acidic malts until the mash is almost over. I think I know how to deal with that though. Conversion should be all but complete just 10-15 minutes after I hit 160 (if not quicker). The remainder of the rest is just to make sure I get the hard-to-get-to starches and because of this comment in Kaiser's Hochkurz Infusion Mash write-up:
Quote:
The dextrinization rest at 70-72C (158-172F) needs to be held until the mash is iodine negative but may be extended to 45-60 min. Many authors contribute head retention and mouthfeel benefits to extending this rest.
__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate
SpanishCastleAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2009, 07:16 PM   #6
brybarrett
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 43
Likes Given: 1

Default

I recall reading about this within the Black Tuesday (IPA) thread. Don't mean to change the subject but, how would one determine the proper water profile to use when following this type of tecnhinque. Should you determine the profile (SRM) prior to adding the roast malts or overall SRM?

__________________
brybarrett is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2009, 07:21 PM   #7
SpanishCastleAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,384
Liked 29 Times on 29 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brybarrett View Post
I recall reading about this within the Black Tuesday (IPA) thread. Don't mean to change the subject but, how would one determine the proper water profile to use when following this type of tecnhinque. Should you determine the profile (SRM) prior to adding the roast malts or overall SRM?
That's pretty much what I plan to do. Basically, treat the water as if the roasted barley and chocolate malt weren't there. I probably won't go all the way to that extreme...but close.
__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate
SpanishCastleAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2009, 05:42 PM   #8
amercuric
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 204
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

There is a chance that extraction of flavor compounds from that dark malt could be time dependent. Whether you do or don't extract something and more importantly: if it tastes good... It's up to you.

__________________
amercuric is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2009, 02:03 PM   #9
14thstreet
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 399
Liked 10 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

It might be too early to say, but how did this go? I've got an 1.050 Oatmeal Stout that's 2 months from brew day and I don't know what the oats contributed and the half pound of the 500L roasted barley is becoming a flavor I'm not digging...it's covered up the half pound each of chocolate and crystal. Mine was a single infusion, creates a nice head but goes completely away so the Hochkurz schedule sounds interesting. Did your pH work out with the late addition grains? Maybe I need to let this age a couple more months.

__________________
Fermenters: Old Peculier w/ Xmas Pudding, Czech Dark Lager, Dopplebock
Bottled: Old Peculier
Kegs: JW Lees Best Mild
On Deck: Kumquat Kolsch
14thstreet is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2009, 04:21 PM   #10
SpanishCastleAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,384
Liked 29 Times on 29 Posts

Default

I tried it on a Brown, Robust Porter, and an Oatmeal Stout. None are ready to drink yet so I don't know how they came out. The Brown is sitting in a corny waiting for a spot to open up in the keezer. The Porter is in a 5.75 gal barrel and the O-stout is still in the fermenter.

The pH was fine until I added the dark grains and then I added a little Baking Soda at the same time as the dark grains on the Porter and O-stout. I forgot to measure pH after the dark grains in the Brown but it was only a tiny bit of chocolate malt. In another thread, Kaiser warned about the boil pH being too low so that's why I added the Baking Soda.



__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate
SpanishCastleAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dunkelweizen: roasted grain vs. decoction, wheat malts Madtown Brew All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 09-27-2011 12:29 PM
Black roasted barley Vs roasted barley skybrew All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 26 04-15-2009 10:23 AM
Adding roasted grains at mash-out? Bert All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 4 02-20-2009 02:24 AM
When to add roasted malts to mash? cee3 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 11-03-2008 12:45 PM
Can you roast flaked Barley to make Roasted Barley bigbellybrewery Recipes/Ingredients 5 06-18-2008 03:29 PM