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Old 06-25-2013, 07:22 PM   #1
knokep
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Default Why Aren't My Hoppy Beers Hoppy?!

I've recently been working very hard on perfecting an IPA. Although I keep tweaking I can't seem to get the bitterness or aroma that commerical IPAs acheive. I'm hoping the knowledge of this group can give me some things to try out and get the hop bomb nailed down.

My last attempt used the following recipe:

Tgt OG: 1.070 @ 70% efficieceny in 5.5 gal batch. Calculated IBU 92 (Via Brewtoad)

13# 2 Row
1# Munich
1# CaraHell

60min 1.5 Oz Warrior 16% AA
20min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA
15min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA
10min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA
5 min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA

Dry Hop 2 Weeks 1 oz Amarillo & 1 oz Simcoe

Safale S05

Adjusted Water Profile
72ppm Ca, 11 ppm Mg, 31 ppm Na, 150 ppm Sulfate, 44 ppm Chloride
Mash pH 5.3, Sparge pH 5.6

BIAB method used with a 10 min dunk sparge.

Actual OG 1.074, FG 1.014

Tasting has very little hop aroma and a lot less biterness than the calculated ibu should impart.

Am I using too few hops? (Calculated ibu's being incorrect?) Does my water need further adjustment? Is a higher OG balancing out the beer? Anyone have any thoughts on what to try next?



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Old 06-25-2013, 07:31 PM   #2
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I don't know about you're water but you're definitely in need of more hops. I use at least 5oz in ipas with another 1-2 for dry hoping. You'll also want to focus on late additions (<15min) with a small 60min addition for bitterness. Ibus don't equal flavor.



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Old 06-25-2013, 08:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knokep View Post
I've recently been working very hard on perfecting an IPA. Although I keep tweaking I can't seem to get the bitterness or aroma that commerical IPAs acheive. I'm hoping the knowledge of this group can give me some things to try out and get the hop bomb nailed down.

My last attempt used the following recipe:

Tgt OG: 1.070 @ 70% efficieceny in 5.5 gal batch. Calculated IBU 92 (Via Brewtoad)

13# 2 Row
1# Munich
1# CaraHell

60min 1.5 Oz Warrior 16% AA
20min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA
15min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA
10min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA
5 min 0.25 Oz Amarillo 8.2% AA & 0.25 Oz Simcoe 13% AA

Dry Hop 2 Weeks 1 oz Amarillo & 1 oz Simcoe

Safale S05

Adjusted Water Profile
72ppm Ca, 11 ppm Mg, 31 ppm Na, 150 ppm Sulfate, 44 ppm Chloride
Mash pH 5.3, Sparge pH 5.6

BIAB method used with a 10 min dunk sparge.

Actual OG 1.074, FG 1.014

Tasting has very little hop aroma and a lot less biterness than the calculated ibu should impart.

Am I using too few hops? (Calculated ibu's being incorrect?) Does my water need further adjustment? Is a higher OG balancing out the beer? Anyone have any thoughts on what to try next?
There are a couple of questions you will want to answer before we can offer specific advice. The first is, what commercial examples are you trying to emulate? If you can answer that, we might be able to offer you a decent clone recipe for the beer. The second is, what do you mean by "hoppy"? You mentioned both bitterness and aroma, so I'll assume for now that you are trying to increase bitterness and aroma, and can answer from that angle.

Bitterness: This is the easiest part of your process to nail down. You essentially just need to know the AA content of the hops you're using (and calculate losses due to age and storage). There are a number of online sources for this. Here's one. If your calculations aren't equaling what you expect them to, it's possible that the hops that you are using are old or were stored improperly.

Aroma: Most of the aroma you get from the best commercial examples of IPAs are achieved through big dry hop additions (3-5 oz in a 5 gal batch).

Bonus: A great supplement to dry hopping is adding several oz of hops post flameout for a hop stand or whirlpool addition. You're looking to let the hops steep in the beer for 20-30 minutes under 180 degrees (but above 160). This addition will help achieve the hop flavor from the essential oils, and will also impart perceived bitterness (even though most online calculators won't factor for this).
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:44 PM   #4
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Your recipe calculates to 112 IBU Rager, 86 IBU Tinseth (What BrewToad uses). Any IBU calculator is an estimate but the differences can be huge and I think it's worth calculating both ways and seeing which number is closer to a commercial beer of the same IBU.

There are "factors" involved in these formulas and there are no correct answers to what these factors are. You'll see what I assumed on my IBU spreadsheet snapshot below. I think the best policy is to choose values you feel comfortable with, brew a lot without changing them, and with time review if your calculated IBU's meet your expectations. Tinseth with a "Concentration Factor" of 1.0 and "Hop Form" factor of 1.0 for pellet hops meets my expectations.

Most of these can be changed in brewing software if you dig deep enough. I haven't seen a calculator doing side-by-side calculations, so I made a spreadsheet.

Aroma & Flavor hopping is trial and error. You may just need more hops everywhere.

untitled2.jpg

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:03 AM   #5
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I don't see the mash temp listed. If you're mashing in the upper 150's the beer won't seem as hoppy as it would if mashed at 148 - 150.

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:14 AM   #6
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Not enough hops! For the same volume I use maybe 4-8 oz mostly late additions. If that doesn't work add gypsum. Mash temp might be a factor but truly a hoppy beer needs hops...

Steve da sleeve

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:19 AM   #7
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Do you squeeze out your hops?
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2013/05/10/hops-squeezing-and-hops-absorption-more-bitterness-please/

This made a huge difference for me!

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:26 AM   #8
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I've only brewed a handfull of IPAs so far, but a nice FWH addition really made the difference for me. My first few I only did a bittering addition. In the last couple, I replaced my 60 minute additions with FWH, and the flavor beats the life out of my previous IPAs. With that said, the perceived bitterness from FWH'ing is lower. So, if you really want a bit more bite, I'd say FWH & 60 min, plus late additions (2-4 oz in the last 15 minutes), and dry hopping is a must.

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Old 06-26-2013, 09:35 PM   #9
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Your issue is not a chemistry problem, it's a recipe problem. You barely have enough late kettle hops to qualify that beer as a pale ale- I'm not sure I'd even call it that. It's more like a strong Blonde Ale. You need at least 3oz of late kettle (say, 1oz at 20, 10, 0) and a big dry hop. A whirlpool addition would do nicely as well.

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Old 06-26-2013, 09:45 PM   #10
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I know it's a dumb question, but I looked at your original post and didn't see a specific clarification. You're doing a full boil, right?

What volume do you start boiling at in order to get down to 5.5? If you aren't doing a full boil but topping off that will also significantly reduce your bitterness and flavoring.

I know... dumb question.

I would also agree that your flavoring hops should be bumped up to about an ounce instead of a quarter ounce.

Carry on. I bring nothing to the table.



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