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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > What factors influence sweetness?
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:09 PM   #31
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You are forgetting that when people talk about "taste," they are not simply referring to tastebuds, as smell is 90% of "taste." Malts have a lot of volatile aromas from caramelization or maillard reactions if kilned. This is most like the aroma that comes from the browned crust on a freshly baked loaf of bread.
My second brew was an extract stout that didn't attenuate worth crap. It gets past my nose just fine. It is the palate that makes it a cooking beer. Makes a nice "Sweet" Stout Kraut....
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:58 PM   #32
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Quite a discussion. Although most of it seems off topic, I find it very interesting. I know that crystal malts can add sweetness of varying degrees but I don't believe I have really been able to nail down exactly what causes it all of the time. I vary mash temps just like most AG brewers in an attempt to affect mouthfeel and sweetness/maltiness but I do not always see a direct correlation between the two. I could believe from my experiences that it is a complex relationship amongst many variables.

As far as some people being born with better taste buds; that is most certainly the case. Everyone person that works in my kitchen (I am a Chef) has the natural ability to taste various flavors accutely. For someone it will be sweet, for someone it will be salty. The real trick to getting them to use it properly is to train their tongue to taste all flavors simultaneously and differentiate each one. I guess my point is that no matter what you are born with, it still needs experience and training to perfect it. I think that means we need to continue training our taste buds by continuing to brew and drink!

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Old 01-22-2011, 09:05 PM   #33
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I know that crystal malts can add sweetness of varying degrees but I don't believe I have really been able to nail down exactly what causes it all of the time.
One maltster, in reply to a recent query: Caramel Malts usually fall into the high 60's range as far as percent fermentable extract.

Declined to be more specific.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:53 PM   #34
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One maltster, in reply to a recent query: Caramel Malts usually fall into the high 60's range as far as percent fermentable extract.

Declined to be more specific.
Wouldn't the degree of malting affect that? For example, wouldn't a lighter kilned crystal contain more fermentables than a darker kilned one.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:03 PM   #35
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One maltster, in reply to a recent query: Caramel Malts usually fall into the high 60's range as far as percent fermentable extract.

Declined to be more specific.
I think a lot of the infermentability of crystallized malt is the byproducts from the caramelization reactions. As far as I know, caramelization is still poorly understood, but involves isomerization, various re-arranging of the carbon ring structures, and condensation. For example, two monosaccharides can join to form difructose, which is definitely not fermentable.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:19 PM   #36
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when people talk about "taste," they are not simply referring to tastebuds, as smell is 90% of "taste."
For this exact reason, Hops can make a beer seem sweet.

A DFH 60 clone I made had an ending gravity of 1.008, yet it has rich mouthfeel and seems sweet. Why? The grain bill is 2-row and 6 oz of 60L. Certainly nothing that would add too much unfermentables.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:15 AM   #37
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Wouldn't the degree of malting affect that? For example, wouldn't a lighter kilned crystal contain more fermentables than a darker kilned one.
Maybe Cargill will give up more information if people keep asking more questions:
http://www.specialtymalts.com/maltster/

Or take down the page.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:46 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by rocketman768 View Post
I think a lot of the infermentability of crystallized malt is the byproducts from the caramelization reactions. As far as I know, caramelization is still poorly understood, but involves isomerization, various re-arranging of the carbon ring structures, and condensation. For example, two monosaccharides can join to form difructose, which is definitely not fermentable.
I don't know how percent compares to yield numbers but high 70's low 80's seem to be the norm for base malt? I guess I never thought much about it. Made me wonder if candy syrup is repeatedly heated to get more sugars 'converted' but it it seems to have the same 'high 60's' as the malts?


http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=1318.0

Name: Dark Belgian Candi Syrup
Type: Extract
Origin:
Supplier: Dark Candi Inc

Yield: 67.39 %
Potential: 1.031

I wonder if this information together implies a limit to the flavor compounds you can form? Just did a quick Google to see what flavor compounds are formed. Hundreds. Including Diacetyl! Interesting read if you followed any of the candy syrup threads debating caramelized vs Maillard reaction. The line doesn't seem to be that clear cut. : http://www.food-info.net/uk/colour/caramel.htm
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:55 AM   #39
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I wonder if this information together implies a limit to the flavor compounds you can form?
No. You can just keep heating it (like any other food) and it'll all turn to charcoal (carbon) because all the hydrogens and oxygens will hook up and float away as water vapor.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:57 AM   #40
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltol

Bam. Found in roasted malts, imparts sweetness, and is used as an artificial flavor enhancer for that exact purpose.
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