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Old 07-13-2012, 06:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by hulkavitch View Post
Why is there so much discrepancy between these spreadsheets? Palmer's says for me to add to RO water for a 3.3 srm (cream ale) 2.5 g CaCl and 2.5g of epsom.

Ez water 8 g of each?

Saq 4.7 g of each?

Also, do you add the additions that dont go into the mash into the boil or the sparge?

Palmer and Jamil in the waterganza podcast were saying something about adding it to the boil because....i cant remember....blah blah
I feel your pain. I have been pulling out handful's of hair trying to figure this out too. I even have tried brewsmiths water calc in version 2. That doesnt take into account grist or SRM! I am going to go with the water primer by Ajdelange. Its simple and easy to figure, take a look.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/bre...primer-198460/
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JerseyJoe View Post
I feel your pain. I have been pulling out handful's of hair trying to figure this out too. I even have tried brewsmiths water calc in version 2. That doesnt take into account grist or SRM! I am going to go with the water primer by Ajdelange. Its simple and easy to figure, take a look.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/bre...primer-198460/
Although i have expressed my concerns with the online nomagraph calculations being extremely off from the numbers in Palmer's book it appears to be pulling from...

Lets not forget that probably over 90% of your success will come from great fermentation, temperature control in particular.

Once getting your fermentation down, these water adjustments may boost your beer from scoring in the low 40's to upper 40's.
Proper fermentation can take your beer from the 20-30's into the 40's, way more signification than any water adjustment could ever do.

All bearing proper cleaning and sanitation processes.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:31 PM   #23
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Default my water profile

i have a copy of my water profile but i have no idea what im looking at. can some one tell me what numbers i need so i can enter them in beersmith


http://www.cityofelgin.org/index.aspx?NID=443

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Old 08-01-2012, 03:58 PM   #24
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Unfortunately, it's not a complete report. It tells you that the calcium ion content is (average) 20*84/50 and that the magnesium ion content is (average) 12.15*(136 - 84)/50 but it does not tell whether any sodium or potassium is present nor does it say anything about the negative ions (chloride, sulfate, bicarbonate) which must be present to balance the positive charges on the calcium and magnesium. You will have to either call them up and ask for the additional data (which they will have) or send a sample off to Ward Labs for analysis.

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Old 08-01-2012, 04:49 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ajdelange
Unfortunately, it's not a complete report. It tells you that the calcium ion content is (average) 20*84/50 and that the magnesium ion content is (average) 12.15*(136 - 84)/50 but it does not tell whether any sodium or potassium is present nor does it say anything about the negative ions (chloride, sulfate, bicarbonate) which must be present to balance the positive charges on the calcium and magnesium. You will have to either call them up and ask for the additional data (which they will have) or send a sample off to Ward Labs for analysis.
Look at your city website. Fortunately for me, my city posts monthly reports. A one time Wards analysis wouldn't work for me. Since we pull municipal water from the Yellowstone River, electrolytes are constantly changing with the season.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Glynn View Post
i have a copy of my water profile but i have no idea what im looking at. can some one tell me what numbers i need so i can enter them in beersmith


http://www.cityofelgin.org/index.aspx?NID=443
Beersmith is good, i would mess around with a few of them until you find one that is comfortable for you....such as John Palmers spreadsheet on howtobrew.com or the easy water calc.

So your table
Here are the important parts as averages
pH - 8.73
Calcium - 86
Magnesium - 48
Chloride - not listed, call your water company they should give it to you and it is essential to have this number
Sulfate - 45
Sodium - 68
total Alkalinity as CaCO3 - 77 (some spreasheets will allow you to choose between bicarbonate or alkalinity as CaCo3, either is fine)

Notes, overall your numbers are somewhat average for the U.S.
pH - a little high but somewhat average for the U.S. if not cutting with distilled you can bring down with acid for your paler beers.
Calcium is in a great range for yeast health
Magnesium is high in my opinion, you only need maybe half to a quarter of this for yeast health, some say too high of magnesium is the cause of the beer S#its.
Sulfate to Chloride ratio: this balance accentuates malt to bitter, higher sulfates for bitter, higher chloride for maltier (call your water company)
Sodium - this is way high on your table and may cause a sharpness to your hoppy beers, i try to keep sodium to a min in almost all brews
Hardness or Alkalinity as CaCO3 - this is fairly middle of the road. good for Ambers and American Ales, your in a good range, cut with distilled for paler beers or add hardness for darker

Hope this helped
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:12 PM   #27
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Yes i do agree with the others about water changing seasonally.
This can be caused by a number of factors which makes the problem even more harder to get a handle on...such as a location pulling river water half of the year and drawing from aquifer another half. I keep my eye on the reports quarterly.
Only way to get a true reading is to have the analysis machines on hand which = $$$$
or just build from distilled every time

I noticed allot of the chloride and sulfates are not terribly different throughout the year with the water i have had experience with.
Chloride to sulfate ratios can be adjusted one way or the other using calcium chloride and calcium sulfate as calcium is essential for yeast health.
Chloride = accentuates malt character
Sulfate = accentuates hop character

But the point is, you want to keep your pH in range around 5.1-5.4 for most beers, so get a good pH tester(not too expensive) and test your pH throughout the mash process, then adjust with perhaps baking soda or acid such as lactic.

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Old 02-01-2013, 01:35 AM   #28
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Default Duluth, MN Water Profile

OK...I'm cheap but curiosity got the better of me. I submitted a water sample to Ward's Labs and here is there "brewing profile". Duluth, Minnesota municipal water (Lake Superior). House built in 1962 (copper pipes). I know it's great water, but was curious about the makeup...may be useful for trying to imitate the H2O from someplace else...

pH 7.9

Total Disssolved Solids ppm 79

Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.13

Cations/Anions, me/L 1.4/1.3



Rest is in parts per million (ppm)

Sodium, Na 7

Potassium, K 2

Calcium, Ca 16

Magnesium, Mg 4

Total Hardness, CaCO3 57

Nitrate, NO3-N 0.8 (SAFE)

Sulfate, SO4-S 3

Chloride, Cl 3

Carbonate, CO3 <1

Bicarbonate, HCO3 56

Total Akalinity, CaCO3 46

Total Phosphorus, P 0.37

Total Iron, Fe 0.09

Now I just gotta figure out how to use this info..enjoy all!

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Anyone have a fairly recent profile of city water in Duluth Minnesota (Lake Superior H20)? I've found something on the city website but it's pretty basic. I'll get a sample tested if need be but I thought I'd check in with the brew-a-nistas before shelling out the $$$ (I'm a cheap mutha!).
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:47 PM   #29
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Yep, its nearly RO quality. The alkalinity should be easy to manage. A little acid for your sparging water and light grists. You may need more alkalinity for brewing with more acidic grists.

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Old 02-01-2013, 08:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glynn View Post
i have a copy of my water profile but i have no idea what im looking at. can some one tell me what numbers i need so i can enter them in beersmith


http://www.cityofelgin.org/index.aspx?NID=443
Here is something you may want to try: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-ch...ter-calculator

It does lots of the unit conversions for you.

for calcium enter 84 - ppm as CaCO3
For Mg enter 52 - ppm as CaCO3 (total hardness - calcium hardness)
for pH enter 8.6
for alkalinity enter 72 ppm as CaCO3

Thus will give you these ion levels:

Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 HCO3- CO32-
33.7 12.6 0.0 0.0 0.0 82.215 1.506 1.32

Since you know Ca, Mg and bicarbobnate/carbonate you have enough data to do mash pH predictions.

Kai

EDIT: I just realized that I fell for an old post. Nevertheless the answer may help others.
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