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Old 10-31-2009, 09:53 PM   #1
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Default Water Questions (moved from the Sticky)

so for the ez spread sheet when I add lets say .5 grams to the mash it then adds .5 or so the the boil underneath. So am I correct in thinking that I need a total of 1 gram split between the two?

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Old 11-06-2009, 05:52 PM   #2
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so for the ez spread sheet when I add lets say .5 grams to the mash it then adds .5 or so the the boil underneath. So am I correct in thinking that I need a total of 1 gram split between the two?
The answer is YES you are absolutely correct!

Now as a side note, the latest version of the spreadsheet has a feature where you can uncheck a box if you don't want to add a given salt to the boil. For example, some people like to exclude Epsom salt from the boil because they only want it in the mash for pH reasons and they want to keep total sodium low. The spreadsheet also then shows you how your total water is affected by doing that.

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Old 11-14-2009, 03:19 PM   #3
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Just a note on brewing city's water profiles. I think they should be taken with a grain of salt (no pun intended)... used as a resource to contribute information to create water profiles for specific styles, not to attempt to duplicate exactly. Most commercial breweries around the world treat their water in some way. One of the best examples of this is Dortmund. I believe it was Fix (Brewing Science and Practice) who stated that evidence suggests Dortmund brewers treat their water to be [practically] as soft as Pilsen.

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Old 09-18-2010, 12:59 AM   #4
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...Maybe -TH- can lay out the formula's for me so I don't have to spend weeks deciphering
Check out EZ 2.0 if you haven't already and pull from there whatever you like! You might still want to read Kai and AJ's works, some of it goes against Palmer's SRM to RA concept.

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Old 02-28-2011, 12:57 PM   #5
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I probably should just start a new thread for the Bru'N Water calculator (it needs it's own thread imo) but I didn't really get too deep into it this weekend. I generally want to know what the predicted mash pH will be, what the ion concentrations for Ca and few others are, and 'almost' never want to make any particular profile (I generally want; low alkalinity, soft but with sufficient Ca). It seemed that I was locked into making one of the available profiles which had it recommending things like lime (IIRC), something I don't have on-hand. It would be nice if I could tell it; "I don't have any of that salt AND I either don't care at all whether I have that ion being added here in my beer or I specifically DON'T want that ion in my beer." But it was trying to match a profile. I need to play with it more but is there an easy way to just get a predicted mash pH and ion concentrations and not have it tell me to add certain salts to match a given profile (that I don't really want to match exactly in the first place)? Can I specify my own profile?

It did tell me that the water report for the bottled water I use is way unbalanced as-is which is good to know. Maybe that's why my mash pH is always higher than TH's calculator predicts (although this weekend it was damn close).

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Old 03-02-2011, 07:44 PM   #6
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It did tell me that the water report for the bottled water I use is way unbalanced as-is which is good to know. Maybe that's why my mash pH is always higher than TH's calculator predicts (although this weekend it was damn close).
I went back and tried to find out why my water report was so out of whack. The report does not say -S or -N for sulphate/nitrate but once I muliplied the numbers in the report by 3 and 4.43 respectively...bam...a green 1.01 block. I can't be sure that's it but it sure points in that direction. Very nice tool to have. I hope 17 ppm nitrate isn't excessive.
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:55 PM   #7
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I have doubts that the sulfate or nitrate were the culprits if the lab didn't indicate that they were reported in 'SO4-S' or 'NO3-N' units. If they indicated SO4 or NO3, then the original values were probably correct. If this was a Ward Labs report, then your revision to the concentrations should be OK.

17 ppm NO3 is high. 10 ppm is the recommended limit for NO3 in drinking water.

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Old 03-09-2011, 12:28 PM   #8
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I have doubts that the sulfate or nitrate were the culprits if the lab didn't indicate that they were reported in 'SO4-S' or 'NO3-N' units. If they indicated SO4 or NO3, then the original values were probably correct. If this was a Ward Labs report, then your revision to the concentrations should be OK.

17 ppm NO3 is high. 10 ppm is the recommended limit for NO3 in drinking water.
Just noticed this response, thanks. This was a report straight from a bottled water company. The Nitrate was 4 on the report. Any ideas how to get this water report more balanced (it's ~1.2 Cation/Anion ratio as-is)?

Ca 58
Mg 4
Na 5
K unk
Fe unk

HCO3 140
CO3 .3
SO4 8
Cl 11
NO3 4
NO2 unk
F unk

pH 7.7

Is it a bit strange that everything is so low (not counting alkalinity) except there is 58 ppm Ca?
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:12 PM   #9
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Did the company tell you the bicarbonate concentration or the alkalinity? In addition, they may have reported the bicarbonate (as CaCO3). Any of these discrepancies would cause you to input too low a HCO3 concentration.

To convert the concentration of bicarbonate that has been reported (as CaCO3) to straight HCO3 concentration, it is multiplied by 1.22. That would bring the HCO3 to about 170 ppm and the water balances acceptably.

You will need to assess if the information from the water company may have that difference.

PS: The next version of Bru'n Water includes a units conversion calculator to allow the brewer to quickly make these investigations.

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Old 03-09-2011, 02:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mabrungard View Post
Did the company tell you the bicarbonate concentration or the alkalinity? In addition, they may have reported the bicarbonate (as CaCO3). Any of these discrepancies would cause you to input too low a HCO3 concentration.

To convert the concentration of bicarbonate that has been reported (as CaCO3) to straight HCO3 concentration, it is multiplied by 1.22. That would bring the HCO3 to about 170 ppm and the water balances acceptably.

You will need to assess if the information from the water company may have that difference.

PS: The next version of Bru'n Water includes a units conversion calculator to allow the brewer to quickly make these investigations.
It definitely says Bicarbonate (the word). I guess I had the relationship bassackwards, I thought my alkalinity as CaCO3 was 115 (that's what I get on the water Input page as well).

EDIT: OK, redding comprension fail on my part. You're saying perhaps they reported it 'as CaCO3' but labeled it 'bicarbonate'. That may be the case, I typ got slightly higher mash pH than TH's spreadsheet predicted when using sauermalz.
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Last edited by SpanishCastleAle; 03-09-2011 at 02:37 PM. Reason: thank you evelyn woodhed!
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