Hmm, over-write the calculated sparge/boil addition huh. Face palm!
That works but the downside is that you have to remember you did that if you keep modifying the same file from batch to batch. I personally don't have any problem with modifying my local copy to clear out the formulas from those fields. I'll probably change the bg color to white so I remember that it's a user input field at that point.
The two salts I regularly leave out of the boil are Chalk and Baking Soda. They are typically only good for raising RA for the mash pH. Also, if you need to use Gypsum and others to drastically lower RA, you'll likely get all the SO4 you'd need out of the mash addition so you wouldn't want to layer more on top for the boil.
Ok, I see now. I also don't see why I'd ever add chalk to the boil. Good point. I see now why you're given the option of splitting mash from boil. Makes sense to me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by garretto
Hey Kal, I just noticed your little notes below your sulfate about 50-150 being normally bitter and up to 350 being really bitter. How's that range working for you?
I forget if I have read about that in Palmer or not.
I frankly can't remember where I read it either... I think it was in Palmer's book. (edit: oops - you guys already mentioned it!). I just cut and pasted it in there to give me some idea of what to aim for...
I probably have a few other notes here and there I added based on information that I thought would be useful to me.
How well does it work? Good question! I don't know! I've done water treatment for my last 5 batches brewed over the last ~4 weeks or so but none of the kegs have been tapped yet!
I made 11 gallons of Munich Helles today (4.5 SRM) using basically my second set of numbers from above:
Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 66 / 66
Mg: 12 / 12
Na: 16 / 16
Cl: 93 / 93
SO4: 90 / 90
CaCO3: 32 / 32
RA (mash only): -23 (3 to 8 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 1.04 (Balanced)
We'll see how it turns out....
Funny enough, I've done 5 batches now from 4-15 SRM and while the RA numbers I come up with should lower my mash pH far enough to get reasonably close to 5.2, for the last two really light beers (last one was a Helles at 4 SRM) I had to end up using a little bit of lactic acid in the mash. In the case of the Helles today noted above, I used 3ml of 88% Lactic Acid in 7.3 gallons of mash to get the pH down from 5.66 to 5.33.
It would seem that (at least for me) if the spreadsheet gives an SRM range then I need to target the upper end of the range (ex: the numbers above say it's good for a 3-8 SRM beer but for me I'll only get pH into range for the higher end, or 8 SRM). For very light coloured beers it's meant using lactic acid a bit. The darker beers (10-15 SRM) that I made previously seem to get a mash pH to low enough (5.3-5.4) that I don't bother. Having a pH meter is a must!
I'm probably going to splurge and drop $70 on a meter before my next batch because I'm less confident that the strips are good enough. Well, actually it's because I'm a gadget geek.
I'm probably going to splurge and drop $70 on a meter before my next batch because I'm less confident that the strips are good enough. Well, actually it's because I'm a gadget geek.
For me it's more the number of times I take readings. I'm still new at water measurements/pH stuff so when I brewed my last batch today, I took around 20 pH readings just to learn what's going on. That's a lot of strips! ($$$$!)
Once I get good at this and start to repeat batches, I likely won't bother as much but for now, readings go more or less like this:
1. Measure initial water pH
2. Dough in, measure pH.
3. Add salts, measure pH so that I see how salts affect mash pH.
4. Hmmm, pH still too high, so add a little bit of lactic acid. Measure pH. Repeat until we're around 5.2-5.4.
5. Mash for XX minutes. Measure pH at end of mash just out of curiosity.
6. Acidify strike water if it's a lighter beer. Measure pH, add lactic, repeat to get strike water down to 6 pH.
7. Sparge. Measure at 5 gallon point, 8, 10, 12, 14. We want to make sure pH stays below 5.6-6.0 range (5.8 preferred) to avoid excess tannin extraction.
8. Measure pH of collected wort. Add salts. Measure pH. 5.5 is considered "perfect".
9. Boil. Measure pH. Should be around 5.2.
10. Ferment. Measure pH of finished product if curious.
You have a situation where there's no harm in adding any of those salts to the boil since they are flavor affecting. Let's say you were adding a bunch of gypsum to the mash for Ca and SO4 additions but also for dropping the RA. Let's say by the time you add enough to get your RA down to where you need it, you already have enough or borderline too much Ca or SO4. That's when you'd think about leaving it out of the boil.
When you add a salt to the mash specifically, it's foremost about getting your pH correct.
You can even go a step further by crafting additions that ONLY go into the boil and not in the mash but it starts getting really complicated. Just for example, what you if you need to get a ton of Ca and SO4 into the beer but your RA is already low enough for the mash? Right, gypsum into the boil only.
Awwww alright, the lightbulb just lit up. That makes a lot more sense. Great job explaining.
And thanks -TH- and Kal for the sulfate brush up.
I hope all your batches come out great, Kal.
Hmm, over-write the calculated sparge/boil addition huh. Face palm!
That works but the downside is that you have to remember you did that if you keep modifying the same file from batch to batch. I personally don't have any problem with modifying my local copy to clear out the formulas from those fields. I'll probably change the bg color to white so I remember that it's a user input field at that point.
Carry on, nothing to see here.
I start with the original spreadsheet and after making modifications I save it with the style and date brewed in the title. That way I always start with the original spreadsheet.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d510addict
Also while I've never had home brew beer I too would find it hard to believe that a homebrew could be better than a fresh pint of tracktown honey orange wheat.
I just got my water report today and I have to say there is some great information here. Thanks everyone.
I am confused on the value to use for sparge water. I am assuming this is the actual amount used for sparge and not the collected amount? In other words the total water for mash and sparge combined will be greater than the boil volume? *edit* I just watched the video (wouldnt work at first) and that seemed to anwer this.
I noticed earlier that salts are added to the mash (I would have tried the strike water). So, boil additions will go into the kettle after sparging right?
Can I hijack this thread? Or shall I start a new one?
Just got back my water report from Ward Labs and this is what I got:
Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 60
Mg: 39
Na: 24
Cl: 21
SO4: 15
HCO3: 333
Total Hardness CaCO3: 313
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 273
pH: 7.8
RA (mash only): 207 (22 to 27 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 1.40 (Malty)
Looks good for darker beer, which I like, but I also like IPA's and such. I tried the dilution ratio but I had to get about 90% to get the mash RA where it needs to be. Any suggestions??
First off, thanks for great videos Bobby and a great spreadsheet TH!
After getting an email back from my water company, it seems the only numbers I am missing to properly use this chart is Chloride and Sulfate which seem to be very important.
Their reasoning was "I do not expect to detect Sulfate and Chloride would be bound with Calcium, Sodium, and other salts." I guess I can't make them test for it if they haven't but they seem pretty cool to answer any question so I was wondering if anyone knew a different way to ask for those numbers? I thought they would be pretty common for a water company to know.
I will probably just order Ward labs if this doesn't work out but figured free was worth a shot first.
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Primary: Yooper's Dead Guy Clone, Orange Hefeweizen
Conditioning: Blonde Strikes Back
Drinking:English/American Pale Ale Crossover, Bee Cave IPA
Can I hijack this thread? Or shall I start a new one?
Just got back my water report from Ward Labs and this is what I got:
Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 60
Mg: 39
Na: 24
Cl: 21
SO4: 15
HCO3: 333
Total Hardness CaCO3: 313
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 273
pH: 7.8
RA (mash only): 207 (22 to 27 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 1.40 (Malty)
Looks good for darker beer, which I like, but I also like IPA's and such. I tried the dilution ratio but I had to get about 90% to get the mash RA where it needs to be. Any suggestions??
thanks in advance
Aaron
Did you watch the videos by Bobby M. That sure answered a lot of my questions. You will definately need some salt aditions to get to a light colored beer. The spreadsheet recommended is great! I just plugged in some numbers for salts until I got a reasonable result. I am very excited to try brewing a lighter beer now. They never turned out very well before.
I've done water treatment for my last 5 batches brewed over the last ~4 weeks or so but none of the kegs have been tapped yet! 
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