Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Water - I think I was doing it wrong

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-03-2013, 06:05 PM   #11
LovesIPA
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,461
Liked 198 Times on 150 Posts
Likes Given: 134

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afr0byte View Post
Also, I saw you mention treating sparge water. Are you also using RO water for that?
Yes I am.
__________________

Immature: A word boring people use to describe fun people

LovesIPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 06:12 PM   #12
jbaysurfer
Former future HOF Brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,012
Liked 382 Times on 288 Posts
Likes Given: 644

Default

Hasn't been answered: The base/crystal/roasted/acid is absolutely critical. They all affect PH in different ways. I use gypsum, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salt), and liquid acid for my additions. The first three give me the mineral profile I want, and the last one helps with PH.

PS, I also use glacier water from the kiosk for my brews and build it up with my mineral additions. Less sulfate for lighter beers/lagers, more for IPAs sounds like you have the basics though...

__________________

First Brew was thanksgiving 2011, I'm at 86 batches and counting (as of 7/17/2014), and ran out of room in my signature to list them all.

jbaysurfer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #13
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,395
Liked 69 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovesIPA View Post
Yes I am.
Perhaps you could describe the "bitter/astringent flavor" a bit better? Normally any IPA i've done will get a bit less bitter/astringent over time.
__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 06:16 PM   #14
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,395
Liked 69 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Default

Also, depending on the acidity level of Great Western, you might need acid. With Rahr and that grain bill / water profile you'd probably be OK pH-wise. You say your blonde tastes good though...which presumably has as a similar grain bill. How clear is your IPA?

__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 07:04 PM   #15
LovesIPA
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,461
Liked 198 Times on 150 Posts
Likes Given: 134

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbaysurfer View Post
Hasn't been answered: The base/crystal/roasted/acid is absolutely critical.
I figured as much, but how do I know how to categorize certain malts? Like victory, biscuit, Special B, or carapils?

Quote:
They all affect PH in different ways. I use gypsum, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salt), and liquid acid for my additions. The first three give me the mineral profile I want, and the last one helps with PH.
I don't use CaCl. Maybe I need to add that to my process.

Quote:
PS, I also use glacier water from the kiosk for my brews and build it up with my mineral additions. Less sulfate for lighter beers/lagers, more for IPAs sounds like you have the basics though...
That's pretty much what I do but I never messed with pH because I don't have a reliable method for measuring it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afr0byte View Post
Perhaps you could describe the "bitter/astringent flavor" a bit better? Normally any IPA i've done will get a bit less bitter/astringent over time.
It tasted great out of the fermenter. I dry-hopped it in the keg and tasted it a few days later. The dry hops were really pronounced and while it was warm and flat, it tasted balanced with good hop flavor/aroma. After a few more days the bitterness and flavor faded somewhat, and the beer took on a malty-sweet flavor, like not enough bittering hops were used (I used 1.4 oz of Summit @60 min).

Right now, it's gross. No hop flavor or aroma to speak of. It smells harsh and maybe a little medicinal. It leaves a bad aftertaste in my mouth. It kinda tastes like beer but it's nothing I would want to drink.

This flavor is why I started looking at water chemistry to begin with. I didn't like the way my IPAs were coming out. I've spent a lot of time trying to get this part of the process down and it's very frustrating to still have problems like this 30+ batches out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afr0byte View Post
Also, depending on the acidity level of Great Western, you might need acid. With Rahr and that grain bill / water profile you'd probably be OK pH-wise. You say your blonde tastes good though...which presumably has as a similar grain bill. How clear is your IPA?
The IPA was very clear before I dry-hopped it. Now it's a little cloudy but pretty much in line with a commercial dry-hopped unfiltered IPA.
__________________

Immature: A word boring people use to describe fun people

LovesIPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 07:15 PM   #16
LovesIPA
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,461
Liked 198 Times on 150 Posts
Likes Given: 134

Default

Here's the recipe:

5.4 gallons post-boil

Mash with 4.7 gallons of RO water
3.2g MgSO4
6.2g CaSO4
Mashed @147.7 for 1:45
Sparge with 4.4 gallons of RO water
(neglected to note whether I treated the sparge water or what I treated it with)

14 lbs GW 2-row
8 oz Biscuit malt
8 oz Carapils

83.9% efficiency

1.4 oz 14.2% AA Summit pellets at 60 min
1.0 oz 12.7% AA Mosaic pellets at 15 min
1.0 oz 12.7% AA Mosaic pellets at 1 min

OG 1.078

Dry hop with 1.0 oz Mosaic

FG 1.015

__________________

Immature: A word boring people use to describe fun people

LovesIPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 07:17 PM   #17
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,395
Liked 69 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovesIPA View Post
It tasted great out of the fermenter. I dry-hopped it in the keg and tasted it a few days later. The dry hops were really pronounced and while it was warm and flat, it tasted balanced with good hop flavor/aroma. After a few more days the bitterness and flavor faded somewhat, and the beer took on a malty-sweet flavor, like not enough bittering hops were used (I used 1.4 oz of Summit @60 min).
Hmm, I notice that at a lower carbonation level my bitter beers become a bit more malty temporarily. I don't know if "a few days later" means partially carbed in your case, though.


Quote:
Right now, it's gross. No hop flavor or aroma to speak of. It smells harsh and maybe a little medicinal. It leaves a bad aftertaste in my mouth. It kinda tastes like beer but it's nothing I would want to drink.

This flavor is why I started looking at water chemistry to begin with. I didn't like the way my IPAs were coming out. I've spent a lot of time trying to get this part of the process down and it's very frustrating to still have problems like this 30+ batches out.
It certainly seems like a tough thing to diagnose. The only thing I can think of, since you mention medicinal, is maybe an infection from reusing a hop bag, or perhaps you're leaching some chlorine from a PVC hose used in racking, and the dry hopped beers, which would have more polyphenols to bind to, are causing the medicinal flavor to become apparent.
__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 07:31 PM   #18
LovesIPA
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,461
Liked 198 Times on 150 Posts
Likes Given: 134

Default

I could also describe the flavor as slightly citrusy in aroma and tart/sour in flavor, but not in a sour-beer way. It doesn't taste anything like a sour or infected beer.

I dry-hopped with a stainless steel mesh container.

__________________

Immature: A word boring people use to describe fun people

LovesIPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 08:00 PM   #19
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,361
Liked 4280 Times on 3119 Posts
Likes Given: 825

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovesIPA View Post
I could also describe the flavor as slightly citrusy in aroma and tart/sour in flavor, but not in a sour-beer way. It doesn't taste anything like a sour or infected beer.

I dry-hopped with a stainless steel mesh container.
The tart/sour could be from the magnesium. I'd leave out the epsom salts for sure.

A mash pH from that grain bill of 5.3 sounds perfect. In that water sheet above, with 278 ppm TDS, where did that figure come from?
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 08:07 PM   #20
LovesIPA
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,461
Liked 198 Times on 150 Posts
Likes Given: 134

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
The tart/sour could be from the magnesium. I'd leave out the epsom salts for sure.
It supposedly gave me 18ppm of Mg in the mash water, which is right in line with what Palmer recommends. I have another question in this forum about Palmer vs. Bru'N Water on "ideal" bicarbonate level too.

Do I really not need any Mg?

Quote:
A mash pH from that grain bill of 5.3 sounds perfect. In that water sheet above, with 278 ppm TDS, where did that figure come from?
That figure came from the Bru'N Water spreadsheet.
__________________

Immature: A word boring people use to describe fun people

LovesIPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Added the wrong hops at the wrong time Kevbot Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 23 02-04-2014 03:16 AM
strike water temp possibly wrong! help yewtah-brewha Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 02-16-2013 05:07 AM
Water in airlock going in wrong direction? kdar Wine Making Forum 5 10-04-2012 05:02 AM
Brewday - BeerSmith Giving Wrong Water Volumes? maltoftheearth Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 02-13-2011 12:55 PM
Wrong hops, wrong time. Any ideas? DansBrew Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 12 11-28-2009 11:38 PM