Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Water Chemistry Help Needed!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-01-2013, 03:50 AM   #1
StefanM47
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 50
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default Water Chemistry Help Needed!

Hey everyone. I'm trying to make a Grolsch clone for my dad. Here's the recipe:

5 Gallon Batch

2lbs German Munich Light
2lbs Crystal 15L
3lbs German Pilsner
4lbs Extra light LME

1oz Northern Brewer for 60mins
1oz Mountain Hood for 30mins
1oz Czech Saaz for 5mins

1 Whirlfloc tablet for 5mins

2 Smack packs of Wyeast 2042 Danish lager yeast


I don't need help with the recipe, but I DO need help with the water chemistry and additions. I figure that since most of this recipe uses light or Pilsner malt, I should try to achieve a Pilsner style Water profile.
Which, from what I've found, should look like this:
(ppm) Ca:7, SO4: 6, Mg: 2-8, Na: 32, Cl: 5

That's clear enough.
I Plan on using 100% distilled water because my tap water here is really hard.
With that in mind, can someone tell me what the actual additions need to be? As in, how many grams of gypsum, Epsom salt, chalk, baking soda, etc... need to be added and when?

I would really appreciate your help!

Thanks in advance.

__________________
StefanM47 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2013, 04:07 AM   #2
StefanM47
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 50
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

K, So I just did some more research and found that for a 100% distilled 5 gal batch I should be adding:

gypsum - 1.7g
epsom - 2g
calcium chloride - 1.5
baking soda - .4g
chalk - .4g
lactic acid - 3ml

Does this sound/Look right to you?

__________________
StefanM47 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2013, 05:42 AM   #3
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,261
Liked 630 Times on 520 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

No gypsum (because you are using Saaz), no epsom salts, definitely no baking soda or chalk (these will raise pH and you need to lower it - these nullify the pH lowering effect of the lactic acid/sauermalz). 2.5 grams of calcium chloride for a 5 gal batch is all you need. See the Primer.

__________________
ajdelange is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2013, 02:18 PM   #4
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,828
Liked 204 Times on 175 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanM47 View Post
K, So I just did some more research and found that for a 100% distilled 5 gal batch I should be adding:

gypsum - 1.7g
epsom - 2g
calcium chloride - 1.5
baking soda - .4g
chalk - .4g
lactic acid - 3ml

Does this sound/Look right to you?
I'm curious what guided you in adding chalk and baking soda to the water for this beer. Neither of those minerals is needed. AJ's recommendation to use the Water Primer is very appropriate for this beer.
__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2013, 06:39 AM   #5
StefanM47
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 50
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

You're saying I just need to use distilled water and no additives? Are you serious?

__________________
StefanM47 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2013, 07:09 AM   #6
jbaysurfer
Former future HOF Brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,552
Liked 492 Times on 368 Posts
Likes Given: 805

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanM47 View Post
You're saying I just need to use distilled water and no additives? Are you serious?
That's not what he said. You have the two water chemistry authorities on the site trying to help you out. Soak it up.

Here's the Primer AJ referred to:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/bre...primer-198460/
__________________

First Brew was thanksgiving 2011, I'm at 103 batches and counting (as of 11/11/2014), and ran out of room in my signature to list them all.

jbaysurfer is offline
neosapien Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2013, 07:22 AM   #7
neosapien
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 714
Liked 140 Times on 99 Posts
Likes Given: 395

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
No gypsum (because you are using Saaz)
I've been diving into water chemistry for the past few weeks. Can you please explain to me why no gypsum with Saaz? Is it just because both calcium and sulfate help to punctuate hop bitterness and saaz is supposed to be delicate?
__________________
neosapien is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2013, 12:01 PM   #8
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,261
Liked 630 Times on 520 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Essentially. The calcium does not have this harshening effect but the sulfate does. You pay a premium for the fine bittering of Saaz. Don't throw it away with sulfate.

OTOH we should note that you are using the Saaz as a finishing hop so that it is not responsible for much, if any, of the bitterness. I've had lots of craft 'Pils' where they do this (i.e. use something with more punch for bittering and add Saaz at the end for 'authenticity') without reducing sulfate and I don't like those beers very much but that's not to say that you wouldn't. My more or less standard advice is to brew it without sulfate, taste it, add some gypsum in the glass and taste it again. If you think sulfate improves the taste then add gypsum to the water the next time you brew it.

__________________

Reason: 2nd Paragraph added.
ajdelange is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2013, 02:56 PM   #9
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,828
Liked 204 Times on 175 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

I'm not as fanatical about limiting sulfate when brewing with noble hops. But I do agree that in delicate beers like Pils, restraint in sulfate content is wise.

Grolsch is a Euro Lager and I would be surprised if the brewing water should have much sulfate in it. A very modest sulfate content of 30 ppm or less is all I would recommend. A modest chloride content is welcome too, maybe 50 ppm or less. Pair those anions with calcium and you are ready to go. Gypsum and calcium chloride are the minerals of choice.

Since a base malt mash in distilled water is going to produce a mash pH that is several tenths higher than desirable, an acid addition is required. Since little acid is required, lactic acid is a suitable choice and it should not affect flavor.

__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #10
StefanM47
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 50
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Thanks for your help!!

__________________
StefanM47 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water chemistry changes: calculated with batch vol or water vol? BigHead33 Brew Science 14 07-18-2013 11:03 PM
Water Chemistry Help sublimefool311 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 04-12-2013 06:16 PM
Basic water chemistry with bottled spring water Kosch All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 09-12-2012 12:05 PM
My first pilsner - advice needed on water chemistry bernerbrau All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 23 03-31-2011 08:34 PM
Mash water chemistry vs sparge water chemistry MrAverage All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 03-29-2011 09:01 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS