kyle0226

Recipes 

Thanks for all the info guys. I really appreciate it. When inputting the numbers into Bru'n, what do you input Barley Flaked as? (crystal, base, or roast)

I will definitely go out and get a ph meter, preferably ATC. Would it be better to overshoot or undershoot mash ph? For instance with my sach rest I intentionally try to undershoot my temp and add water accordingly to hit temp. After all the suggestions I think I may need to change my water system to RO water. I may be able to hit my ph with my current water, but hitting my mineral profile based on region would be a whole different story.

ajdelange

Recipes 

With a pH meter in hand you should be able to get pH right where you want it and so it becomes another parameter (along with chloride level and sulfate level) you can adjust to produce the beer you like best.

I can tell you what the effects of high pH are. Dull beer. Dull in the sense that the usual description by those who have followed the Primer and/or obtained a pH meter are that all their flavors seem "brighter" and that seems a pretty good way of putting it IMO. The flavors just seem better defined.

I have never succeeded in going too low (yet) but continue to push in that direction to see what happens. Eventually the peak is going to be passed but I don't know what the effects will be. Will the flavors become "duller" again?

It's going to take some effort to get too low. About the only ways I can think of to do it is to add so much black malt that the beer would taste like blended charcoal briquettes so that pH error would be a relatively minor concern or to slip with the sauermalz or acid. Weyermanns publishes a recipe for a Berliner Weiße using, I think, 8% sauermalz. This gets the pH of the finished beer low enough that it tastes like a Berliner Weiße (i.e. quite sour) without, apparently, disastrously effecting the conversion effectiveness of the enzymes or the fermentation abilities of the yeast.

bobbytuck

Recipes 

I don't mean to hijack the thread -- but a quick question based on your response: does going this low with the pH have a big impact on the mouthfeel of the beer? Does it mean thin beer?

ajdelange

Recipes 

Berliner Weiße is pretty wimpy beer in terms of OG, FG and alcohol content as a consequence of which it has a pretty thin body. Whether the mash pH has anything to do with this or not I do not know. I would expect temperature to have a much greater effect but just as temperature does that by controlling the efficacy of the various enzymes I would expect that pH, as it also determines enzyme activity, would as well. Really low pH is not a region I have explored. Some texts have graphs of enzyme activity as a function of temperature and pH. Having a look at one of those might give some insight e.g. lower temp. makes beta amylase more active than alpha so that the beer is thinner. If low pH also renders beta amylase more active you might suspect that it would lead to thinner beer. But I don't remember the details. I'll see if I can find something tomorrow.

Bigscience

Recipes 

What is the timeframe the the pH would stabilize after dough in if treating/ not or adding acid malt? 5 minutes? 10? How long after any further adjustments should measurements be taken?

__________________
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kyle0226

Recipes 

My water has chloramines in it. When using a RO system are campden tabs still necessary for reducing/ eliminating chloramines?

When making salt additions what is the best way?

1. Force carb concentrated amount in a corny keg
or
2. Add directly to mash, adjust sparge water with acid, then add sparge water additions to wort?

ajdelange

Recipes 

Mash pH stabilizes reasonably quickly with one exception and that is when sauermalz is part of the grist. It then takes 15 - 20 minutes for the pH to rise to its final value. It can look a little scary at first when sauermalz is involved.

pH does change somewhat throughout the course of the brew depending on how you are proceeding. If using hard, alkaline water with decoction mashing a drop in pH of a couple of points can occur as the decoctions progress. With soft water and sauermalz pH actuall rises a little.

ajdelange

Recipes 

It is necessary to remove chlorine/chloramine for the sake of the RO membrane. Short of coming up with some sort of metering device to inject metabite into the RO units feed it is much more practical to use an activated carbon filter prior to RO. Many/most systems include such a filter.

The only thing that you might consider adding that requires CO2 is chalk and you really don't want to be fiddling with chalk for a number of reasons the obvious one of which is that having to do the CO2 thing is a big pain. The second major reason is that having gone to the trouble of getting chalk to dissolve by the use of CO2, it will immediately drop out again when the water is heated.

Many of the spreadsheets overestimate the acidity of dark and even base malts and wind up advising the addition of chalk. Most at least suggest adding this to the mash rather than the water so even if you follow one of them you wouldn't have to bother with CO2.

Advanced brewers who have particular reasons for wanting to emulate a particular water profile might add chalk and CO2 to their water but it is not something for the beginner.


Salts other than chalk are quite soluble in water and it is, IMO, better, therefore, to dissolve them in the brewing liquor as this has to be a better way to uniformly expose the grist to them than trying to stir them into thick mash.

If mash pH is too low, and it shouldn't be, then you would correct that with chalk or lime and that should be stirred into the mash rather than the water. But resist the advice of those who would have you do this until you have verified, by a reading from a properly calibrated pH meter, that the addition is really necessary.