HBT 2014 Big Giveaway - 4/10 Re-Draw Winners Posted!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Water Analysis Question




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2013, 06:37 PM   #1
marvso
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 16
Default Water Analysis Question

Been brewing for awhile but like everyone else, always looking for ways to improve. I only recently got into trying to understand the importance of water profiles. It seems a steep learning curve. Here is the results I got back from Ward Laboratories:

pH 7.5
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 68
Cations /Anions, me/L 1.2/1.1


PPM

Sodium, Na 8
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, CA 10
Magnesium, MG 4
Total Hardiness CaC03 42
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.0 (safe)
Sulfate SO4-S <1
Chloride, CI 4
Carbonate, CO3 <1
Bicarbonate HCO3 56
Total Alkalinity CaCO3 46
Total Phosphorus,P 0.10
total Iron, Fe <0.01
"<"- Not Detected/Below Detection Limit


I have been trying to work through the spreadsheets but as I said, this is a huge learning curve for me. Does the above water profile ring any bells on anything I should be adding to my water in the way of additives?

Thanks !



__________________
marvso is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-31-2013, 06:42 PM   #2
grathan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: albany ny, NY
Posts: 1,238
Liked 70 Times on 48 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

You should get some calcium cholride and/or some gypsum. Calcium helps with protein coagulation and feeds yeast and mash enzymes.



__________________
grathan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-31-2013, 06:56 PM   #3
marvso
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 16
Default

Ok thanks. I was reading somewhere that 50 to 100 ppm was desirable so it seemed a little low. I also read that Chloride should be 10 to 100 ppm. I am assuming that calcium chloride would raise both?

__________________
marvso is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-31-2013, 07:03 PM   #4
cluckk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
cluckk's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,598
Liked 342 Times on 224 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

Try to adjust the water for the style you are trying to brew. Simply adding this or that because your water is deficient in something is a waste of time. You want the ratio of your chloride and sulfate to be tweaked according to the profile of your beer. Chloride rounds out malty beers and sulfate improve hops. Get a good program to work with this--something like Bru'n Water.

__________________

"So you say you just brewed your first batch of beer. Welcome to the obsession." --me, to every first time brewer I ever meet.

cluckk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-31-2013, 09:19 PM   #5
marvso
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 16
Default

Great advice. Is there a reference that I can use to find an ideal profile for beer I wish to make? I have seen them by location but would be better to have per style.

__________________
marvso is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-31-2013, 11:30 PM   #6
ajdelange
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 5,199
Liked 451 Times on 370 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Trying to hit a particular water ion 'profile' for a particular beer is often a waste of effort. It is usually only necessary to re-create the broad characteristics of the beers you are trying to brew. An Export is known for its highly mineralized water and Bohemian Pils for its very low water ion content. British ales are often brewed with high sulfate water. Munich beers with low.

The Primer in the Stickies should be enough to get you started. From there you must experiment until you achieve the result you want.

Beyond there Bru'n Water has carefully researched 'profiles' for various beer styles.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
ClaudiusB Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2013, 07:57 AM   #7
grathan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: albany ny, NY
Posts: 1,238
Liked 70 Times on 48 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvso View Post
Ok thanks. I was reading somewhere that 50 to 100 ppm was desirable so it seemed a little low. I also read that Chloride should be 10 to 100 ppm. I am assuming that calcium chloride would raise both?
yeah, this page has a neat chart that suggests that 1 gram raises calcium 72ppm and chloride 127ppm per gallon.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-4.html
__________________
grathan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #8
cluckk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
cluckk's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,598
Liked 342 Times on 224 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

The book Brewing Better Beer has excellent information on water.

__________________

"So you say you just brewed your first batch of beer. Welcome to the obsession." --me, to every first time brewer I ever meet.

cluckk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2013, 07:06 PM   #9
marvso
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 16
Default

getting the hang of EZ WATER CALCULATOR. Pretty slick! Do you think one still needs to invest in a PH meter or are these calculations accurate enough?

__________________
marvso is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2013, 07:20 PM   #10
GotPushrods
Bearded Lagerjack
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
GotPushrods's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 328
Liked 54 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvso View Post
getting the hang of EZ WATER CALCULATOR. Pretty slick! Do you think one still needs to invest in a PH meter or are these calculations accurate enough?
I've seen the term "water calculator" used more frequently lately and thought it was worth clarifying.

These spreadsheets and online "calculators" are all models, not calculators. There are mathematical calculations involved in the process, but are very much not calculators.

Calculator implies that if you put in the right inputs, you get out the "correct" output. The problem is there are thousands of input variables which you just can't completely know.

A model attempts to use a few known variables to get a decent representation of the system without knowing every last detail.

The authors of the various models have all used their own inputs and methodology to try and get as close to the "actual" pH across as many scenarios as possible.

So it's probably no surprise that these models all give different "answer" to the problem. This is because they are all using a small subset of the inputs in different ways. Ever looks at those hurricane forecast models with different lines for each model?

I guess I could have said "yes, you need a pH meter", but hopefully you have a better idea why.


__________________
GotPushrods is offline
ClaudiusB Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water Analysis brewhah All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 07-17-2013 11:01 PM
Dallas Water Analysis and Question asdtexas All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 19 01-22-2012 04:52 PM
Water Analysis: Ward Labs Analysis Type Jewrican General Beer Discussion 2 11-27-2011 10:54 PM
Water Analysis Question adromo Brew Science 3 06-28-2010 06:57 PM
Question about water analysis from Kroger jaobrien6 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 06-26-2009 05:56 PM