Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Ward labs question
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-21-2009, 04:56 PM   #1
chrisrush
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NW Austin
Posts: 135
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Ward labs question

I want to find out what my water profile is like in NW Austin. I know we have very hard water, but we have a water softener. I use RO water for brewing but since I am getting into AG, I would like to start off with a good quality water. I am going to send a sample or two into Ward labs. Would sending in an RO sample and a tap sample be a good idea? With having both results, I could customize my water profile depending on the style that I am brewing, correct? Say, 50/50 RO/tap, etc.

__________________

Barrel 1: Jim Beam
Primary 1: DFH 60' IPA (10g)
Primary 2: AHS Shiner Clone (10g)
Keg 1: AHS Pumpkin Ale
Keg 2: AHS Imperial Oktoberfest/Marzen
Keg 3: Munich Helles
Keg 4: Golden Celeia Pilsner
Keg 5: Chocolate Stout
Keg 6: Witguy Bier

chrisrush is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2009, 06:54 PM   #2
JVD_X
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
JVD_X's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gainesville, Virginia
Posts: 1,492
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Yes. You can send both in.

However, you should not be using softened water for brewing because it adds sodium to the water.

Is your RO water first run through the softener?

__________________

- JVD_X

JVD_X is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2009, 07:17 PM   #3
Rushis
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 289
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

The water straight from RO system should be completely void of any salts, you should be able to treat it like distilled water for the purposes adjusting water chemistry.

I'm sure there are most experiences individuals out there, but for what it's worth, I wouldn't bother sending in a water samplefrom your RO, unless you want to see what a sheet of 0's looks like.

As an alternative to lab testing you could check your RO water with a multimeter, the conductivity of pure water should be 18 megaohms*cm anything lower and you still have some salts dissolved in the water.

__________________
Rushis is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2009, 08:47 PM   #4
chrisrush
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NW Austin
Posts: 135
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVD_X View Post
Yes. You can send both in.

However, you should not be using softened water for brewing because it adds sodium to the water.

Is your RO water first run through the softener?
I believe the RO water is first run through the softener, but I'll have to check to see.

I'm using KCl for the water softener, so it won't add Na, but K instead. I wonder if this will be a problem.
__________________

Barrel 1: Jim Beam
Primary 1: DFH 60' IPA (10g)
Primary 2: AHS Shiner Clone (10g)
Keg 1: AHS Pumpkin Ale
Keg 2: AHS Imperial Oktoberfest/Marzen
Keg 3: Munich Helles
Keg 4: Golden Celeia Pilsner
Keg 5: Chocolate Stout
Keg 6: Witguy Bier

chrisrush is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2009, 08:48 PM   #5
chrisrush
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NW Austin
Posts: 135
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushis View Post
The water straight from RO system should be completely void of any salts, you should be able to treat it like distilled water for the purposes adjusting water chemistry.

I'm sure there are most experiences individuals out there, but for what it's worth, I wouldn't bother sending in a water samplefrom your RO, unless you want to see what a sheet of 0's looks like.

As an alternative to lab testing you could check your RO water with a multimeter, the conductivity of pure water should be 18 megaohms*cm anything lower and you still have some salts dissolved in the water.
I have a TDS meter on the RO filter and it reads in the 100ppm for TDS. I don't have a multimeter, might try and see if Ward Labs can test for conductivity.
__________________

Barrel 1: Jim Beam
Primary 1: DFH 60' IPA (10g)
Primary 2: AHS Shiner Clone (10g)
Keg 1: AHS Pumpkin Ale
Keg 2: AHS Imperial Oktoberfest/Marzen
Keg 3: Munich Helles
Keg 4: Golden Celeia Pilsner
Keg 5: Chocolate Stout
Keg 6: Witguy Bier

chrisrush is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2009, 09:29 PM   #6
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,015
Liked 978 Times on 653 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

I would want to know the makeup of the incoming tap water before the softener or RO filter. RO alone can't strip all the ions out but it gets pretty close.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2009, 10:09 PM   #7
Rushis
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 289
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
I would want to know the makeup of the incoming tap water before the softener or RO filter. RO alone can't strip all the ions out but it gets pretty close.
How efficient are home RO systems? At the laboratory level, the reverse osmosis systems are used to get a 18 Mohm water from distilled water. As you pointed out, the RO system can only do that because the input water is already distilled.

Hmmm, I must research some more...

@chrisrush

I obviously don't know much about home RO systems. The TDS meter is measuring the conductivity of the solution and converting that into a reasonable measurement (ppm). The MilliQ systems used in labs only report the resistance. Good to know for the future. Thanks for the lesson!
__________________
Rushis is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-06-2010, 06:10 PM   #8
chrisrush
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NW Austin
Posts: 135
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
I would want to know the makeup of the incoming tap water before the softener or RO filter. RO alone can't strip all the ions out but it gets pretty close.
Thanks Bobby. I'm not sure if I can get some water before the softener, perhaps the outside tap isn't prefiltered with the softener.
__________________

Barrel 1: Jim Beam
Primary 1: DFH 60' IPA (10g)
Primary 2: AHS Shiner Clone (10g)
Keg 1: AHS Pumpkin Ale
Keg 2: AHS Imperial Oktoberfest/Marzen
Keg 3: Munich Helles
Keg 4: Golden Celeia Pilsner
Keg 5: Chocolate Stout
Keg 6: Witguy Bier

chrisrush is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-06-2010, 06:52 PM   #9
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,015
Liked 978 Times on 653 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

Just follow the input side of the softener back until it disappears into the foundation wall. If there are no tees/taps off of it, I think you'd probably want one installed at some point.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-06-2010, 06:55 PM   #10
chrisrush
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NW Austin
Posts: 135
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
Just follow the input side of the softener back until it disappears into the foundation wall. If there are no tees/taps off of it, I think you'd probably want one installed at some point.
I would have installed one if this was my house, unfortunately, it is a rental. I'll see what I can do.
__________________

Barrel 1: Jim Beam
Primary 1: DFH 60' IPA (10g)
Primary 2: AHS Shiner Clone (10g)
Keg 1: AHS Pumpkin Ale
Keg 2: AHS Imperial Oktoberfest/Marzen
Keg 3: Munich Helles
Keg 4: Golden Celeia Pilsner
Keg 5: Chocolate Stout
Keg 6: Witguy Bier

chrisrush is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How To Send In Water For Ward Labs Test HenryHill Brew Science 101 07-26-2014 04:47 PM
My water report from Ward Labs...what does it all mean? Jkane101 Brew Science 8 09-08-2009 06:28 PM
Water Report from Ward Labs vtchuck Recipes/Ingredients 0 03-08-2008 08:22 PM
Kudos to Ward Labs - Water Report orion2598 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 06-10-2007 02:51 PM
Question about White labs yeast rbankert Recipes/Ingredients 7 09-29-2006 01:50 AM