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Old 04-06-2012, 04:09 PM   #21
bobbrews
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Because I was trying to get a basic point across (probably in poor fashion) that the ratio matters more than the numbers on their own (to an extent). Whether you're driving 100mph or 85mph in a 60mph zone, you're still probably going to get pulled over. However, you might not be pulled over you were going 70 in a 60mph zone.

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Old 04-06-2012, 04:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
Because I was trying to get a basic point across (probably in poor fashion) that the ratio matters more than the numbers on their own (to an extent). Whether you're driving 100mph or 85mph in a 60mph zone, you're still probably going to get pulled over. However, you might not be pulled over you were going 70 in a 60mph zone.
Well, then, you probably should have mentioned that you were only talking about a certain range of values. What you said before just wasn't true.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:47 PM   #23
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The notion that chloride and sulfate represent not 2 but a single degree of freedom is very appealing to the starting brewer who is totally bewildered by the dozens of degrees of freedom that he must in fact deal with. Sulfate isn't something you can do much about short of RO, distillation or ion exchange. Wouldn't it be nice if you could compensate for extra sulfate by simply adding more chloride? Or if you have gypseous water wouldn't it be great if you could reduce the effect of that by simply increasing chloride? Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Nevertheless the appeal is so great that somebody took 1 paragraph out of a British brewing text which doesn't even say that chloride sulfate ratio defines the beer, even in part and the next thing you know everyone (not everyone - some of us know better) thinks there's a single parameter 'chloride sulfate ratio' that moves one along a 'malty-hoppy' axis. But as I noted in an earlier post any statement to the effect that the ratio is more important than the individual levels must add 'except in continental brewing' where low sulfate is sought.

To demonstrate that the concept of a ratio is valid one would have to do principal components analysis on lots and lots of beers and demonstrate that log[Cl-] and log[SO4--] lie close to the same principal component but on opposite sides of the origin which is the statisticians way of saying adding more of one cancels the effects of the other. One can do simple experiments with finished beer by adding salt and gypsum and tasting. It shouldn't take too many experiments to convince the curious that the idea is fallacious.

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