Are things like copper, boron, lead, selenium good for my water profile?

boss429 · 08-13-2010, 01:15 AM

I just found out our fellow member aj de lange is a water profile authority. I was going to pm aj de lange for this but I am curious about this and what others might say about this too.

Ok I was talking to one of my brewing friends and i told him I want to make my own water profile out of RO. I said Ill add chalk, gypsum, baking soda etc... ok his reply was "If i do that I will be missing other essential minerals/compounds like copper etc... that make beer taste better" along the lines of that

John Palmer only talks about the basic minerals and in the brew strong series they also ignore it.

So my questions are as follows.

Are copper, boron and other compounds/minerals that im not aware of essential to beer taste or does it make it taste beer just a little better?

If these substances are beneficial is it in the mash, the boil or fermentation (yeast health).

What styles are these substances important and what ratios if they are.

What are these compounds other than copper.

In my report I see boron, barium, selenium(i eat eggs everyday selenium must be good) lead and copper.

BigEd · 08-13-2010, 01:42 AM

Lead?? Are you kidding? Certain trace elements that are minor essential minerals for humans like copper or selenium are probably in the same category for yeast, however, they are not something that needs to be added to brewing water. Just pay attention to the essential brewing ions listed in reputable brewing literature and don't overthink it.

**Yooper** · 08-13-2010, 01:49 AM

I had this same argument, er discussion, a few weeks ago right on this forum. One member (can't remember who) insisted that we can't make good brewing water from RO and salts because we'd be missing some crucial trace elements. "Like what?" I asked. He listed several- notably iron and arsenic. Um, well, I can live (probably much better!) without arsenic in my brewing water!

I'm not talking about exactly duplicating the brewing water of Burton-on-Trent, though. I'm more interested in making my water good for brewing. That involves correcting any deficiencies, reducing the alkalinity, and ensuring the mash pH is in a favorable range.

Of course, some things that are "ok" in our tap water according to our water departments aren't good for brewing. Iron, lead, arsenic, chlorine, etc, may be found in your tap water but it's not a desirable thing. It's just "acceptable" up to a certain threshold. That means it shouldn't harm your health. It doesn't mean it's good for brewing.

boss429 · 08-13-2010, 03:04 AM

i agree that I might be over thinking it. I also agree that it sounds ridiculous to want lead in my beer.

but..

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/dwg/copper.htm

this seems like a neutral reputable source and it states

On the average, drinking water accounts for less than 5% of our daily copper intake. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (U.S. EPA) has determined that copper levels in drinking water should not exceed 1300 ug/l. No adverse health effects would be expected if this level is not exceeded. Measures should be taken to reduce exposure to copper if this level is exceeded.

so copper is part of our diet.

When i eat eggs I eat alot of selenium.

cant find anything on boron, and yes lead sounds verry bad.

but regardless these small details can make big differences in a beer and would like to learn about it with the application of beer.

**ajdelange** · 08-13-2010, 03:09 AM

I'd say that copper and selenium in small concentration would be beneficial to the yeast, that boron would make little difference and that barium and lead would be detrimental to anyone drinking the beer. Brewers value copper more than anything on the list and it was fairly common practice among brewers in the days when pennies were made of copper to throw a couple into the kettle (not, of course, necessary if the kettle is made of copper) in order to insure an adequate supply.

It isn't really necessary to add copper, zinc, selenium etc. to the brew as malt contains a fair amount of the required trace minerals. Some like to blend at least a small amount of their tap water with DI water in putting together soft brewing water with the idea that at least a bit of these trace elements will be available to the yeast in the fermenter.

boss429 · 08-13-2010, 06:19 AM

ok sounds good thats what i was planning on doing 1/4 tap filtered and then 3/4 RO. Interesting that the malt contain these materials I just read on science daily that beer has silicon. So that also in the grain. Pretty much from what i understand the grain has alot of the nutritious supplements for the yeast.

I wanna buy malt that says like 100% MORE ANABOLIC

**ajdelange** · 08-14-2010, 11:14 AM

I'm sure my beer has lots of silica because my well delivers 28 mg/L and, as you have noted, grain husks have a fair amount. That's what wears malt mills.

Actually, my beer probably doesn't have that much - it's doubtless all building up on the feed side of my RO membranes shortening their useful life. About all it does for beer is gum up the lauter bed slowing runoff.