Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > So...I wanna brew a Dortmunder, and here's my water

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-02-2012, 08:26 PM   #1
meatwad
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lodi, CA
Posts: 154
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default So...I wanna brew a Dortmunder, and here's my water

This is a veery scary place down here in "Brew Science." And I never thought I'd darken the door. But I really want to brew a Dortmunder, and I realize that a distinct water profile is super important to this style, so I come to you good mad scientists! I can tell you have I zero idea how to change my water, but I'm a quick learner with some good direction.

According to Designing Great Beers (Page 252, Table 22.8) this is the Dortmund Brewing Water:

Mineral ppm
Calcium 225
Magnesium 40
Sodium 60
Choloride 60
Sulfate 120
Carbonate 180

Now, I understand this is hard water. I've read a few places online where brewers will add Chalk and Gypsum. I know nothing of these steps. But I can show you my water which I've received from the city of Lodi, CA, and hopefully you kind folks can point me in the right direction.

Total Hardness mg/L as CaCO3 - 128
Total Hardness grains/gal - 7.5
Calcium, mg/L - 28
Sodium, mg/L - 20
Potassium, mg/L - 6.9
Alkalinity (bicarbonate), mg/L - 172
ph in ph units - 7.5
Magnesium, mg/L - 14

Can anyone decipher this and give me a few pointers for brew day? Or some light reading for a non-chemist beer guy who just wants to make (and drink) some dortmunder?

For your efforts -

A few beautiful pictures of Lodi






__________________
meatwad is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #2
mjohnson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 564
Liked 31 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 18

Default

Wow, thats lovely. I'm a newb to this chemistry thing, but I've read a lot lately. I'm going to write what I guess the real experts might say. We'll see how I do.

1st, read the water chemistry primer sticky. Then, here's what I'd do (and am doing for my beers). Start with RO. Follow the primer (add some CaCL and some acidulated malt to the mash). See how it tastes. Then start adding minerals if you don't like the results. My thinking is this - it will likely be quite good as is. If you choose to add to the water, then you'll actually understand how the additions affect the flavor.

Thats the strategy I've been using and its been working well for me. You know what the water there is, but you don't know how they handle it in their brews. I'd bet they have processes to manage the minerals and pH.

Thats this newbie's suggestion. Please let us know what you decide.

edit for the link: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/bre...primer-198460/

__________________
mjohnson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2012, 01:03 AM   #3
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,395
Liked 69 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Default

If you actually want a mineral laden profile (And exports are supposed to be mineral laden.) like that it'll probably be easier to start from RO. You'll need to add a combination of gypsum, calcium chloride, baking soda, and something like chalk or pickling lime to get close to that profile. You'll want to play around with Bru'n Water or EZ Water to figure out good additions to RO/distilled water. You'll probably want a bit of acid or acid malt too.

EDIT: You might also try the profile available in the Bru'n Water spreadsheet.

__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2012, 03:10 AM   #4
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 5,661
Liked 537 Times on 440 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

I think mjohnson pretty much hit the nail on the head. You aren't really striving for Dortmund water but water as treated by the brewers of Dortmund. Export is known for a definite mineral quality in the finished beer. You can be pretty sure those minerals do not include bicarbonate as much of the bicarbonate would drop out when the water was heated for mashing. So calcium chloride and/or calcium sulfate to taste should carry the day. Start with both as directed in the Primer. Then, as you are tasting the beer, experiment with adding more to the finished beer. This will give you an idea as to how beer brewed with extra salts would taste.

Magnesium isn't usually considered flavor positive in beer but this may be an exception. I would approach that the same way i.e. add some epsom salts to the finished beer before deciding that you want to commit to it in a brew.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2012, 05:48 PM   #5
meatwad
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lodi, CA
Posts: 154
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Thanks for the help fellas, appreciate it. I read the Primer, and all subsequent pages.

Couple additional questions RE: RO Water.
Do I start with 100% RO, and if so, where on earth do I get RO water?

Secondly

Quote:
For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.
So for this Dortmunder Export, am I correct to assume, per 5 gallons of RO Water -
- 2tsp Calcium Chloride
- 2tsp Gypsum
- 2% Grist of Acidulated Malt (10 lb grist, so .20 lb Acidulated Malt?)

Finally, I imagine the Acid Malt gets added to the mash per usual mashing. But is the water treated by putting the Calcium Chloride and the Gypsum into the strike water, then into the mash?

Thanks again, just working thru all of this in my head...

Meatwad
__________________
meatwad is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2012, 06:10 PM   #6
mjohnson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 564
Liked 31 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 18

Default

I'd start with 100% RO water. RO water is often sold as "purified" water. If you look at the fine print, it will say "reversed osmosis" somewhere. Those grocery store kiosks that allow folks to refill their own jugs are also usually reversed osmosis. My Wholefoods has one.

I'd treat all the water at once while heating it to strike temps. The acid malt goes in the mash with everything else.

Regarding the amounts - I did some reading on that style and it does seem that the sulfate is a feature of the beer. I believe Gypsum gives you that so its addition is appropriate. If it were me, I'd brew it once with 1tsp each of Calcium Chloride and Gypsum to get a feel for what that buys you. But I'm conservative. I'd rather have a tasty beer thats not quite to style than a real minerally beer that I don't like to drink.

__________________
mjohnson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please Help Me Understand Bonnie Blue Brew Water Calc makisupa Brew Science 9 12-27-2011 01:34 PM
My first brew with RO water jbsg02 Brew Science 4 12-22-2011 09:54 PM
Water, water everywhere, and not a drop I can use in my brew. carloski44 Brew Science 9 05-27-2011 07:17 PM
Anyone wanna weigh in? Snafu Brew Science 8 11-14-2009 04:37 AM
Major screwup in brew water adjustment! kincade Brew Science 5 07-29-2009 11:51 PM