Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > so confused by water report
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-10-2013, 04:50 PM   #21
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

alright but what about residual calcium? will I have to add more?

__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #22
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,346
Liked 654 Times on 542 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Yes. You have 6.7 mval alkalinity and 5.2 calcium hardness. You will want to increase the calcium by adding sulfate or chloride in ratio that depends on how much sulfate and chloride you ultimately want to get the calcium hardness up to at least 6.7. That should, if the rule of thumb applies closely to your case, get you to about 1 mval (50 ppm as CaCO3) each alkalinity and hardness. You really should test to see what you actually get (test kits are available from companies such as Hach, LaMotte, Cole Parmer... and from aquarium and pool suppliers). If more than the 1 mval calcium is wanted then extra sulfate and/or chloride need to be added but do it before the heat or lime treatment as you may be able to get the bicarbonate down a bit below 1 mval and every bit helps.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 05:00 PM   #23
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

how long does this take to settle out? I mixed up a trash can full of water last night- looked today and it's still on the cloudy side.

__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 05:06 PM   #24
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

also, ajdelange, you spoke of adding sulfate or chloride to the water in a ratio, at wahat ratio do I add those things?

__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 05:08 PM   #25
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,433
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningweird View Post
also, ajdelange, you spoke of adding sulfate or chloride to the water in a ratio, at wahat ratio do I add those things?
You need to add that extra calcium before you do the treatment, btw. Calcium is used in the reaction (You're forming CaCO3.), so if you don't have enough you'll end up with leftover lime in the water.
__________________
afr0byte is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #26
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

If you want to play with the chemistry of slaked lime treatment use this calculator:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-ch...or/?id=CNJVQX2

It was not released yet when I first posted in this thread. The section were to control the precipitation is “Boiling and Lime Softening”. If you also open the “Mash Water before Dough-In” section you can see the predicted pH, alkalinity, etc.

You’ll also notice that with added calcium your alkalinity is able to drop further just like afr0byte said.

Kai

__________________
BrauKaiser.com - brewing science blog - Twitter - water and mash chemistry calculator
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 06:26 PM   #27
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
If you want to play with the chemistry of slaked lime treatment use this calculator:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-ch...or/?id=CNJVQX2

It was not released yet when I first posted in this thread. The section were to control the precipitation is “Boiling and Lime Softening”. If you also open the “Mash Water before Dough-In” section you can see the predicted pH, alkalinity, etc.

You’ll also notice that with added calcium your alkalinity is able to drop further just like afr0byte said.

Kai


looks neat, I'll play around with it over lunch.
__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 06:30 PM   #28
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,346
Liked 654 Times on 542 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningweird View Post
how long does this take to settle out? I mixed up a trash can full of water last night- looked today and it's still on the cloudy side.
If the particles are finely divided it can take a long time and if it takes too long atmospheric CO2 will enter the water and the particles will redissolve. To get larger particles try adding some chalk to the water before adding the lime. The lime that precipitates will tend to precipitate onto those particles and thus should settle faster. Also, be sure you are stirring throughout the whole process as this give the particles opportunity to flocculate. You could also add a small amount of aluminum chloride or ferric chloride. This is what a water treatment plant does to get particulates to settle. But you have to be careful to get the right amounts (determined by experiment) as you don't want ferric or aluminum ion in your beer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningweird View Post
also, ajdelange, you spoke of adding sulfate or chloride to the water in a ratio, at wahat ratio do I add those things?
Whatever ratio you like! By this I mean that some people don't like the effects of sulfate and some people love it and some people love it is ales and hate it in lagers so it is a trial and error thing. I always recommend starting with straight chloride and adding some sulfate in the glass to see if they like the effect. If they do they then brew with sulfate next time.
__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 07:35 PM   #29
runningweird
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
runningweird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State Line, PA, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,107
Liked 87 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

okay, so I just tested my water experiment - my pool store test strips gave me a pH of 8.4
and alkalinity of 40 ppm

__________________

My 6 Tap Long Draw Tower Build:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/long...-tower-271578/

runningweird is online now
afr0byte Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2013, 07:42 PM   #30
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,346
Liked 654 Times on 542 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Declare Victory and have a beer. You got your alkalinity down to below the rule of thumb 1 mEq/L (though with a pool test kit 40 could easily mean 50).

__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North Penn Water Authority (Montgomery Co., PA) Water Report lebshiff21 Brew Science 11 04-30-2014 11:13 PM
Richmond, VA Water Report - Can't find the Ca or Mg in water report alers22 Brew Science 2 10-29-2012 02:00 PM
Water Engineering for PA : AJs Water Primer based on Ward Lab Report mrcastellino Brew Science 4 11-22-2011 04:55 AM
Ward Water Report and Bru'n Water Sheet, now what? ToastedPenguin Brew Science 1 07-22-2011 08:58 PM
Hows my water look? dont really understand the water report ekjohns General Beer Discussion 3 03-30-2010 07:52 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS