Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Purpose of the boil after mashing?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-30-2010, 07:16 PM   #11
IrregularPulse
Hobby Collector
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IrregularPulse's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 42,550
Liked 2762 Times on 2713 Posts
Likes Given: 118

Default

A mash is a mash regardless of 2 lbs or twenty. It will take 30-60 minutes to fully convert. Without doing an Idodine test to check, you wait 60 to be sure. Now if you're not boiling that portion of the wort, you're not concentrating it therefore your OG will be lower than if you had and like Bobby said, hop utilization will be effected.

__________________
Tap Room Hobo

I should have stuck to four fingers in Vegas. :o - marubozo
IrregularPulse is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2010, 07:24 PM   #12
robertbartsch
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 202
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Is it niave to assume the barley malt extract manufacturor boiled the wort for 1 hour before the water was removed to create DME for sale to home brewers?

I've read many posts that say there is no need to boil DME wort for long periods unless you are trying to mimic a specific hop outcome (e.g, a specific bitter and aroma profile that requires a long boil).

Thx...

__________________
robertbartsch is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2010, 07:34 PM   #13
robertbartsch
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 202
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

OK - thanks. I think I have the mash part down. I steep grains in in a bag at 150F in water in a separate pot for about one hour.

My question is really, after the one hour mash has been completed, do I need to boil at 212F the grain mash for one hour or can I just add the grain wort to the extract main boil for 10-15 minutes at the end of the boil?

I guess the short question is: do I need two hours of stove time (1 hour for mashing, 1 hour for boiling) if I am steeping grains that will be added to an extract wort?

__________________
robertbartsch is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2010, 07:38 PM   #14
IrregularPulse
Hobby Collector
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IrregularPulse's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 42,550
Liked 2762 Times on 2713 Posts
Likes Given: 118

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbartsch View Post
OK - thanks. I think I have the mash part down. I steep grains in in a bag at 150F in water in a separate pot for about one hour.

My question is really, after the one hour mash has been completed, do I need to boil at 212F the grain mash for one hour or can I just add the grain wort to the extract main boil for 10-15 minutes at the end of the boil?

I guess the short question is: do I need two hours of stove time (1 hour for mashing, 1 hour for boiling) if I am steeping grains that will be added to an extract wort?
You don't need to, but you'll have to figure that in for your expected gravity and adjust your hop profile to compensate. 10-15 is plenty to boil for sanitizing reasons.
__________________
Tap Room Hobo

I should have stuck to four fingers in Vegas. :o - marubozo
IrregularPulse is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2010, 07:59 PM   #15
Scimmia
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: QCA, Iowa
Posts: 959
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

I've been told there are five main reasons for boiling the wort.

1. Sanitization - This can be done with a reduced boil time
2. Isomerization - This could be done with a reduced boil time, if you use a hop extract.
3. Volitization - The only way I can think of to reduce the time here is by using darker kilned base malts. The darker they're kilned, the more SMM was already converted to DMS and driven off.
4. Concentration - Probably not an issue for you
5. Coagulation of proteins - I'm not totally sure, but I think as long as you boil long enough to get your hot break, you're fine here.

__________________
Scimmia is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2010, 04:07 PM   #16
rocketman768
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
rocketman768's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 1,086
Liked 22 Times on 19 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimmia View Post
I've been told there are five main reasons for boiling the wort.

1. Sanitization - This can be done with a reduced boil time
2. Isomerization - This could be done with a reduced boil time, if you use a hop extract.
3. Volitization - The only way I can think of to reduce the time here is by using darker kilned base malts. The darker they're kilned, the more SMM was already converted to DMS and driven off.
4. Concentration - Probably not an issue for you
5. Coagulation of proteins - I'm not totally sure, but I think as long as you boil long enough to get your hot break, you're fine here.
Great summary. Remember, from 9000BC to the renaissance, beer (or its cousins) was about the only safe thing to drink, primarily due to the fact that it was boiled to kill the microorganisms that make us sick. We take for granted the fact that we can just draw safe water out of the tap, but the concept of sanitized municipal water is very new, and still unknown in many developing worlds (even China).

If you don't boil the wort or at least sanitize it somehow, you will end up with either vinegar or sour beer. Trust me...why don't you leave your spent grains out until the next day. They will smell sour and foul due to the wild yeast and bacteria crawling over the grains.
rocketman768 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2010, 05:20 PM   #17
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 21,915
Liked 943 Times on 629 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

It would take a little software figuring to see how you'd have to change your hop bill but sure, you can accomplish what you're after in about an hour and a half. How big is your boil kettle? One of the benefits to using all mash-derived wort as your starting boil is it can be more volume. You'd have higher extract efficiency. It really depends on how much of the total fermentables you plan to get from the mash. If it's a minor role, it won't matter much. In any case, I'd want to vigorously boil the mash derived wort for at least 20 minutes to get your hot break and boil off the DMS precursors.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gypsum in the boil? JLem Brew Science 4 03-09-2010 12:50 AM
Confusion about mashing Brew-Happy Brew Science 7 11-11-2009 08:58 PM
Post boil gravity Limited Visibility Brew Science 1 10-15-2009 07:27 PM
IBUs and Boil Gravity SumnerH Brew Science 7 07-23-2009 03:00 AM
Purpose of lagering? brewmonger Brew Science 16 03-07-2009 04:01 PM