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JeffoC6 · 07-26-2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GotPushrods

The bicarbonate from the 2011 report might be an error, not sure it was ever 250 mg/L. Everything else is very low. I found a 2010 report that shows about the same with very low bicarbonate alkalinity as well.

I would just treat this like RO water -- it's essentially a blank slate. Great for brewing, but you'll need to add a few things back in.

Once you assume it's just like RO water, the water chemistry primer in the sticky section of this forum will make a lot more sense.

Adding a little calcium chloride and sometimes calcium sulfate will make a lot of really good beers with that water.

I appreciate your help, but I just want to make a beer that doesn't make me pucker up and shiver. Do I really have to do all this? Everyone (when I started out) told me that you should just use water that "tastes good." Well, I've been, and my beer hasn't tasted good yet, and I've brewed 25 batches (1-gallon). I'm incredibly frustrated and to be quite honest, I didn't think I'd have to read and understand the chemistry of my bottled water to make a drinkable beer...If indeed this is true, then maybe this hobby isn't for me.

GotPushrods · 07-26-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffoC6

I appreciate your help, but I just want to make a beer that doesn't make me pucker up and shiver. Do I really have to do all this? Everyone (when I started out) told me that you should just use water that "tastes good." Well, I've been, and my beer hasn't tasted good yet, and I've brewed 25 batches (1-gallon). I'm incredibly frustrated and to be quite honest, I didn't think I'd have to read and understand the chemistry of my bottled water to make a drinkable beer...If indeed this is true, then maybe this hobby isn't for me.

A lot of people have average water, and make average beer that tastes good to them. They've never felt the effects of very hard or alkaline water, or visa-versa. Buying such soft, low alkalinity bottled water opens you up to making GREAT beer, but on it's own it's that great for brewing.

It's not as hard as it might seem at first. You literally just get a bucket of your water, and dump a teaspoon of this, and maybe 2 teaspoons of that in. And you're good to go. It's pretty forgiving. You probably won't know the different between 50 and 80 ppm calcium for instance.

Deciding what to add is the hardest part, and it's not difficult at all. If you read the primer and it's still foggy, read it again a few times. I promise it will get easier.

There are only a few ions you need to worry about in brewing water, and only a few salts you add that contribute those.

brycelarson · 07-26-2012, 08:32 PM

If you're thinking the water might be a problem why don't you try a batch with tap water? You're only doing small batches so you can boil and cool it. That should help precipitate things out and de-gas the chlorine.

Hell, it's a test you can do that will actually reduce your brewing costs.

hector · 07-26-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffoC6

I'm incredibly frustrated and to be quite honest, I didn't think I'd have to read and understand the chemistry of my bottled water to make a drinkable beer...If indeed this is true, then maybe this hobby isn't for me.

It's NOT so complicated as you think .

The water you are using is really very low in hardness ( Ca ) and with a pH > 6 , then your mash pH would never be in the appropriate range .

In other words , you need a minimum concentration of Calcium ion ( 50 ppm ) to react with the phosphate from the malt in order to reduce the mash pH .

The best thing to do is to add Gypsum ( CaSO4 ) and Calcium Chloride ( CaCl2 ) .

Hector

JeffoC6 · 07-26-2012, 08:52 PM

So you guys are saying that Poland Spring water is my issue?
So does that mean that every other AG brewer out there using Poland Spring water is having the same problems I am?

hector · 07-26-2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffoC6

So does that mean that every other AG brewer out there using Poland Spring water is having the same problems I am?

If they don't treat the water just like you , then the answer is YES .

Hector

**Bobby_M** · 07-26-2012, 08:59 PM

One way to see if it's water related is to brew with distilled water with some calcium chloride added and stick to a simple blonde recipe.

JeffoC6 · 07-26-2012, 09:10 PM

So are you all saying that I basically have to buy some of these ingredients that you're listing (calcium chloride, gypsum, etc.) in order to make beer that doesn't taste like I'm licking a copper penny?

Or my alternative is to simply trying brewing with my tap water, or brewing with distilled water and see what happens?

I'd really rather KNOW what I'm going to be getting...So what do I do?

GotPushrods · 07-26-2012, 09:30 PM

For about 4 bucks, you'll have a huge supply of what you need. Every brew shop will have these:

2 oz Calcium Chloride - $1.50 (Will last about 10 5-gal batches)
2 oz Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) - $1.15 (Will last me 10-30 5-gal batches)
1 lb Chalk (Calcium Carbonate) - $1.10 (Rarely used, even in stouts. I will be buried with it)

I would actually recommend pickling lime instead of chalk, but you get the idea. That's all you need.

***Yooper*** · 07-26-2012, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffoC6

So you guys are saying that Poland Spring water is my issue?
So does that mean that every other AG brewer out there using Poland Spring water is having the same problems I am?

No.

But here's what I'd do. Buy some calcium chloride, and use the Poland Spring water according to this thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Or, since the beers don't taste all that good, try reverse osmosis water for one batch and use the calcium chloride. If the beer is better, then you know it was the Poland Spring water.

I use reverse osmosis water for the most part, because my tap water is highly alkaline. I learned that by sending a water sample to Ward Labs. For $16.50, you can get a full water report and see what your tap water needs to be usable for brewing.