Phosphoric Acid vs Lactic Acid - Page 4

acefaser · 01-07-2012, 02:33 PM

So how about just using Starsan for phosphoric acid? Starsan is just Phosphoric acid and Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and is food safe. Is there any negative effects with dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid?
I've actually used it in the mash once when my PH was slightly high and I left my Lactic acid at my friends house. I have a spray bottle of diluted starsan and just gave the mash a squirt or two.

**Yooper** · 01-07-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccharomyces

Sounds like your water profile is actually very close to mine. I found it took a LOT of phosphoric acid (like 1/4 of a bottle) to neutralize the alkalinity, due to the high calcium levels, so I have switched to a 85% phosphoric acid (purchased from Duda Diesel cheap) which I dilute to 25%. This lets me add a manageable amount without breaking the bank at $3 a bottle from the LHBS.

For sparge, I use RO water acidified to pH of 5.7 or so with phosphoric acid using my pH meter. I have quit using lactic acid for anything other than tartening up my berliner weiss which isn't quite sour enough out of the fermenter, the amounts I needed to get a correct mash pH were detectable in the brew.

You know, at first I thought phosphoric acid was cheaper. But then I realized that for this last 6.5 gallon batch would require 20 ml of phosphoric acid for 6 gallons of sparge water! And that's being conservative. I typically use 6ml of lactic acid in the same amount of sparge water.

I haven't noticed any flavor contribution from lactic acid in the sparge water with a little sauermaltz in the mash. But I wanted to compare the differences. If I like the results, I think I'll either have to get the "other" phosphoric acid, or consider preboiling my water (or using pickling lime like pjj2a said) and racking off the precipitates.

**Yooper** · 01-07-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acefaser

So how about just using Starsan for phosphoric acid? Starsan is just Phosphoric acid and Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and is food safe. Is there any negative effects with dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid?
I've actually used it in the mash once when my PH was slightly high and I left my Lactic acid at my friends house. I have a spray bottle of diluted starsan and just gave the mash a squirt or two.

I have no idea- but Star-san would be a very expensive sub!

mabrungard · 01-07-2012, 03:26 PM

The other problem with using StarSan as your acid is that we don't know the strength of the acid. A program like Bru'n Water requires the input of the acid strength (%, normality, or molarity) in order to predict how much you should be adding to your water. You're left with trial and error as your only way of figuring out the StarSan addition.

Lorena, I'm assuming you're using a 10% phosphoric acid. I like Duda Diesel's 75% phosphoric. That 6 ml lactic addition is similar to what I had to use when I was in Tallahassee. I thought my beer flavor was unaffected by the lactic in that case.

**Yooper** · 01-07-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mabrungard

Lorena, I'm assuming you're using a 10% phosphoric acid. I like Duda Diesel's 75% phosphoric. That 6 ml lactic addition is similar to what I had to use when I was in Tallahassee. I thought my beer flavor was unaffected by the lactic in that case.

I am using the 10%. When I brewed early in the week, I used your spreadsheet to calculate the amount of the 10% phosphoric and with my tap water, I would need around 35 ml, if memory serves. I had a mix of RO, though, and that calculated to a 20 ml addition. That's what I did.

**Homercidal** · 01-09-2012, 01:55 PM

I used phosphoric for the first time this weekend. Brun says I needed 22 ml for the sparge... Wow. It was 32 ml total.

That's a few brews per bottle!

I'm going to look into that 75% stuff. If it doesn't break down in storage, I'll mix it down to 25% also and keep it in the 10% bottle!

I don't plan on using Citric Acid, but considering you use such a very tiny amount, couldn't you measure, say 2 grams and make a solution with a precise amount of distilled water, say 12 ounces? Then you wouldn't have to be as precise when measuring the liquid.

EDIT: According to the Duda Diesel's website, that phosphoric acid is actually 85%.