Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > pH/RO water adj. brewday pics
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-11-2011, 09:07 PM   #1
RCCOLA
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 1,066
Liked 68 Times on 44 Posts
Likes Given: 57

Default pH/RO water adj. brewday pics

I've been following this forum for awhile and just wanted to thank TH, AJ, and Martin B. You guys have really helped me to get my head around my water mods. Once again--thanks guys!
Here are my results from yesterday's brew. I used Bru'n water calculator and EZ water calculator to compare it to.

7° SRM/ 7 gallon batch/
RO water: 4.5gallons mash
4.5 gallons sparge. 2 sparges @ 2.25gal/ea.

Grain bill:
48% 6 lb American Two-row Pale
32% 4lb Wheat Malt
8% 1 lb Caravienne Malt - 22L
8% 1 lb Flaked Oats
4% 8oz Honey Malt

I wanted a malty profile, so I used
Mash: 2g CaCl, 1g CaSO4
Sparge: 1.6g CaCl, .8 CaSO4--> 1/2 of each of these were added to the 2 sparge volumes.

This nets:
Ca: 42 (after pickling lime addition it went to 56)
Cl: 55
SO4: 30
Estimated pH: 5.2(Bru'n Water calc) 5.46(EZ Water)
Actual: 5.3 before lime addition

The first thing I did was calibrate my meter. First at 7pH then at 4pH. It did not need adjustment--had held it from 2 weeks ago.

I added my strike water to the tun and then added my mash ions to it, then stirred in the grain. I took a sample and jockeyed it between 2 plates to cool it to room temp. It yielded a mash pH of 5.3 Disregard the 5.5 reading--it's the pH of the storage solution

So, I added .5g of pickling lime (Ca(OH)2) which raises pH

This brought my pH up to 5.4. If I had used baking soda, the calculators predict that it would have taken 2-3 times that amount to have the same effect

After I added my first sparge volume, I stirred in .8g CaCl and .4 CaSO4 and then checked pH.

It read 5.8.

I wanted it at 5.6 so I added 1tsp of 10% phosphoric acid which dropped it to 5.4

Ranoff the 1st sparge volume, added the second along with .8g CaCl and .4 CaSO4, and checked pH at 5.6

Seemed good to me and I left it alone. Here's the 5.6 reading on one of my CPR test stripsLooks like 4.6 to me. 5.6 on its scale is medium brown.

Boil pH ended up at 5.2 That's an 8 gallon boil in an 8 gallon pot BTW. Fermcap FTW.



All in all, a good brewday. My $40 meter (Hanna HI98107) performed flawlessly and my additions worked pretty close to as predicted. 6.25gals chilled to 64F and tucked away in my wine fridge set at 65F.

__________________

Reason: Correcting my bad info
RCCOLA is offline
Gameface Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-11-2011, 09:51 PM   #2
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,870
Liked 207 Times on 178 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

You rock, Dude! Good information. Glad Bru'n Water was useful.

__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-11-2011, 10:13 PM   #3
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,377
Liked 662 Times on 549 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCOLA View Post
So, I added .5g of pickling lime (Ca(OH)2) which adds bicarbonate and raises pH
It doesn't actually add any bicarbonate. That's the beauty of it. Just beneficial calcium and hydroxyl ions (which raise the pH).


Quote:
Originally Posted by opteek View Post
After I added my first sparge volume, I stirred in .8g CaCl and .4 CaSO4 and then checked pH.
Adding these salts would have no effect on water pH if they were really CaCl and CaSO4. But a lot of "calcium chloride" contains some calcium hydroxide and so will raise the pH slightly.

Unless you want more of these salts in the boil for some reason there is little point in adding them to the sparge water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opteek View Post
I wanted it at 5.6 so I added 1tsp of 10% phosphoric acid which dropped it to 5.4
Just do this in the future. Note, however, that it is very unlikely that you need to treat the sparge water. RO/DI water has no alkalinity to speak of and will not pull runoff pH high unless you sparge way past where you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opteek View Post
Here's the 5.6 reading on one of my CPR test stripsLooks like 4.6 to me. 5.6 on its scale is medium brown.
Hope readers will see and believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opteek View Post
Boil pH ended up at 5.2
Excellent.
__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-11-2011, 10:27 PM   #4
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,870
Liked 207 Times on 178 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
It doesn't actually add any bicarbonate. That's the beauty of it. Just beneficial calcium and hydroxyl ions (which raise the pH).

The hydroxyl does have an equivalency in terms of alkalinity which I have converted to an equivalent 'bicarbonate' concentration in the program. Sorry for suggesting that pickling lime actually adds bicarbonate to the water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
Unless you want more of these salts in the boil for some reason there is little point in adding them to the sparge water.

Sparge water mineral additions are certainly necessary if a desired ion concentration is wanted in the kettled wort. The mineral additions can be added to either the sparge water or directly to the kettle.
__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-11-2011, 10:44 PM   #5
RCCOLA
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 1,066
Liked 68 Times on 44 Posts
Likes Given: 57

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
Adding these salts would have no effect on water pH if they were really CaCl and CaSO4. But a lot of "calcium chloride" contains some calcium hydroxide and so will raise the pH slightly.
.
Is it just in the mash that these salts will drop pH?
__________________
RCCOLA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-12-2011, 01:59 AM   #6
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,870
Liked 207 Times on 178 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCOLA View Post
Is it just in the mash that these salts will drop pH?
That is correct. The calcium and magnesium react with the phytins in the malt to create an acid that actually does the pH reduction. That does not apply in the sparge water or kettle. To acidify in those instances, you have to add an actual acid like phosphoric or lactic.
__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-12-2011, 03:01 AM   #7
RCCOLA
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 1,066
Liked 68 Times on 44 Posts
Likes Given: 57

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabrungard View Post
That is correct. The calcium and magnesium react with the phytins in the malt to create an acid that actually does the pH reduction. That does not apply in the sparge water or kettle. To acidify in those instances, you have to add an actual acid like phosphoric or lactic.
Wow. You would think in reading countless threads and articles on brewing water, that I would have caught that one.

Once, again, thank you guys. I always learn something new over here.
__________________
RCCOLA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-06-2012, 11:43 AM   #8
RCCOLA
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 1,066
Liked 68 Times on 44 Posts
Likes Given: 57

Default

Here's another brewday I did awhile back with a dark beer. It shows just how far dark malts push down pH. The next time I do a beer with a bunch of dark grains, they will be steeped separately from the mash so I don't have to mess with pH so much.

Fuller’s London Porter clone
(7 gallons/ all-grain)
OG = 1.052
SRM = 32

Ingredients
9 lbs. pale ale malt 3.5L
1.0 lb. 5ozs. crystal malt (75 °L)
1.5 lbs. brown malt 65L
1 lb. chocolate malt 450L
1 lb. flaked barley 2L

RO water/ 5gal mash/ 5gal sparge

Calcium Chloride (CaCl: .9g mash/.8g boil)

Gypsum (CaSO4: .8g mash/.7g boil)

Pickling Lime (Ca(OH)2): 2.2g mash. Bru'n water estimated that I needed 3.8g to raise my pH to 5.4, but it only took 2.2. If I had used baking soda, it estimated 6.3g, but it looks more like 5g would have done it.

EZ water said I would need 6.3g of baking soda to reach pH 5.4

For a total of:
Ca: 23 (84 after adding Pickling Lime)
SO4: 23
Cl: 27

Estimated pH:
Bru'n water: 5.2--Both with and without my 2.2g of pickling lime
EZ water: 5.19
Actual: 5.2 before adding pickling lime, 5.4 after adding it.

First, I calibrated my meter at pH 7. Added a little pH7 buffer to the cap and it checked OK

Dumped/rinsed the cap with D/I water and added pH4 buffer solution. It read 4.1, so I adjusted it to 4
Added my water/grain/salts to the tun and checked pH at 5.2

Too low, I wanted it higher so I added 1.2g pickling lime CaOH2--AKA Calcium Hydroxide to raise the pH to 5.4

Checked it again ~ 5 mins later and it had fallen to 5.3
So, I added 1g more pickling lime and got it back up to 5.4

After an hour, drained the tun, added 5 gals sparge water and checked pH at 5.6This was fine and I left it alone & ranoff the sparge and started the boil, which checked at 5.2which is a good boil pH according to AJ.
Ended up with 6.5gals in the fermenter

__________________
RCCOLA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-06-2012, 02:12 PM   #9
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,870
Liked 207 Times on 178 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Porter flavor. I find that the slightly elevated pH makes the beer rounder and less sharp.

I see that you ferment in a polyethylene container. Be sure to keg or bottle ASAP after the primary ferment to reduce oxygen contact via the more permeable container walls.

__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-06-2012, 02:17 PM   #10
ArcLight
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Millburn, NJ
Posts: 951
Liked 44 Times on 38 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Default

Does polyethylene leak that much O2?
How about a plastic bucket like:

http://morebeer.com/view_product/165...ucket_6_Gallon
or

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/6-5-g...thout-lid.html

I usually leave the beer for a month, and haven't noticed any card board taste.

__________________
ArcLight is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North Penn Water Authority (Montgomery Co., PA) Water Report lebshiff21 Brew Science 11 04-30-2014 11:13 PM
IPA water recipe - adjusting high bicarbonate water conpewter Brew Science 19 10-01-2010 06:29 PM
Water quality, what to do....Hard water and high pH. BroadStreetBrewery Brew Science 9 09-11-2010 05:12 AM
Water adjustment - Austin, TX water chloramines pale ale anastasis Brew Science 4 04-02-2010 06:31 PM
Tucson, AZ water profile results from water dept. herbler Brew Science 40 02-02-2010 05:31 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS