Pale lager and Dortmund water is there a trick ?

eimar · 02-01-2010, 05:16 AM

I really like the DAB Dortmunder export and would like to give a try at brewing this style. So I first checked the Dortmund water profile and was amazed by its high level of bicarbonate.
How could the Dortmund brewers , let's say 1 century ago when water treatment was unheard , brew such a pale lager with such inappropriate water ?.

Jacques

SpanishCastleAle · 02-01-2010, 11:55 AM

It's because there is a ton of Calcium in there, Calcium helps acidify the mash. The Magnesium level is pretty high too which also helps acidify the mash (but less so than Calcium).

remilard · 02-01-2010, 02:05 PM

There pretty much is no water that is appropriate for very pale beers without some method of mash acidification. That is why it was a big deal when the first pale/clear beer was brewed in Pilsen in the 1840s. By 1900 mash acidification was pretty well understood.

That said, there is lots of evidence that Dortmund beers aren't actually brewed with that water.

menschmaschine · 02-01-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remilard

That said, there is lots of evidence that Dortmund beers aren't actually brewed with that water.

Yes... IIRC, it was Fix who suggested that today's Dortmunders are brewed with water comparable to Pilsen.

SpanishCastleAle · 02-01-2010, 02:48 PM

It wouldn't take much dilution with distilled/RO to get it right. Untreated Dortmund water has a RA of -4 (SRM 5-10) per TH's spreadsheet. You could use it untreated and be fine.

remilard · 02-01-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle

It wouldn't take much dilution with distilled/RO to get it right. Untreated Dortmund water has a RA of -4 (SRM 5-10) per TH's spreadsheet. You could use it untreated and be fine.

Depends on what you want your mash pH to be. I haven't like beers I have made where it has been around 5.8 (about what you would get with an all pilsner mash with water of RA = -4). If you want, say, 5.3 you have to acidify.

SpanishCastleAle · 02-01-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remilard

Depends on what you want your mash pH to be. I haven't like beers I have made where it has been around 5.8 (about what you would get with an all pilsner mash with water of RA = -4). If you want, say, 5.3 you have to acidify.

Yea, you're right. I thought just diluting it with RO a little would get you there but diluting doesn't really affect the RA very much (it actually goes up a tiny amount).

It's easy to get it in the right range with a little dilution plus Calcium, but that wasn't the question.

eimar · 02-09-2010, 04:41 AM

Thanks to all the nice members on this forum who took some of their valuable time to reply.
So to resume: I'm wasting my time ( and my brewing ingredients ) trying to copy Dortmund water when brewing a DAB . Right ?

Jacques

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