The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Olive Oil - Testing

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-10-2013, 06:38 PM   #1
luke2080
Insert Witty Title Here..
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
luke2080's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 452
Liked 17 Times on 16 Posts

Default Olive Oil - Testing

The purpose of this thread is to create a standard test that fellow homebrewers can perform at home and post the results. Please keep any responses to your test results or ideas to improve the testing only. Opinions and arguements on this topic are already underway on another thread.

I'm expecting to record results from this testing until December 2013, at which point I'll publish the results here at HBT. However, if we have enough results coming in, I'll post it Quarterly.

The purpose of the test:
Quantify the impact to fermentation Olive Oil (OO) has on Final Gravity (FG) and taste, as compared to other known aeration techniques: No oxygen, splashing, aeration from aquarium pumps (AFP), and aeration from an O2 tank (AT). This is the homebrew version of Hull's analysis title "Olive Oil Addtion to Yeast as an Alternative to Wort Aeration". The main point of Hull's testing was to analyze the impact to longevity of the beer, an important factor for commercial breweries. Because I drink beer to quickly, longevity will not be tested.

Required equipment:
To perform this test, you must be able to create a starter. Equally split the starter into two measureable amounts (2 measuring cups), fermentors to split one batch equally to smaller batches, OO, and common sense. Optional equipment - aeration aquarium pump/stone & aeration from an O2 tank.

Process:
Create a proper starter for the beer you'd like to brew. 5 hours before you'll need to pitch the starter (generally before you fire up your HLT) split the starter into two batches. Or more if you are going to test more than 1 aeration technique. The starter can be chilled and decanted first, or the full volume. This does not matter, as long as ultimately all of the yeast is fully shaken up back into the solution/starter, and that this starter is now spread evenly per batch.

One starter should be given a miniscule drop of OO - again, 5 hours before it'll be required. This is difficult to measure, so I'd propose everyone do it this way: Put a bit of OO on a spoon. Over your sink, pour out that OO. Then put the spoon over your starter you wish to add this to, and hang it over until you get one drop to drip in. (If anyone is able to measure how much OO this is, please do). Also - sanitize your spoon first!

After you've brewed and chilled, split the wort into equal batches. There are 4 possible results to record: Using OO, Splashing to aerate, using aquarium pump, using O2 tank, and no aeration. You must at least perform 2 of these techniques with the same split batch and same split starter. If you have the ability to do more than 2 at the time, please do. Be sure to label your batches.

The length of time you ferment, temperatures, and other variables should be the same for all batches. How you control this does not matter (ferment at 80 degrees for all I care), just be sure all the versions from one batch test are under the same conditions.

Record the results in the following format:
Batch: 1-A
Beer Type: Hefeweizen
OG: 1050
FG: 1012
Method Used: OO, Splashing, AFP, AT, No O2
Oxygen parts per million (PPM): If you can measure this..I can't. Doubt any of us can.
Taste Results: 1,2,1,1,2
Did anyone taste OO?: Yes/No
Taste Test Method: Single Blind, Double Blind, Blind Triangle

For Taste Results, #1 is best. If you did 3 tests out of the same batch, people would blind taste test 1 through 3. If 5 people sample it, record all of their results for each batch. These will eventually be weighed for the final taste results across the HBT testing.

Each test should then at least have two sets of results, like so:

Batch: 1-A
Beer Type: Hefeweizen
OG: 1050
FG: 1012
Method Used: OO
Oxygen parts per million (PPM): N/A
Taste Results: 1,2,1,1,3
Did anyone taste OO: No
Taste Test Method: Single Blind

Batch: 1-B
Beer Type: Hefeweizen
OG: 1050
FG: 1013
Method Used: Splashing
Oxygen parts per million (PPM): N/A
Taste Results: 2,1,2,3,2
Did anyone taste OO: No
Taste Test Method: Single Blind

Batch: 1-C
Beer Type: Hefeweizen
OG: 1050
FG: 1014
Method Used: No O2
Oxygen parts per million (PPM): N/A
Taste Results: 3,3,3,2,1
Did anyone taste OO: No
Taste Test Method: Single Blind
__________________
luke2080 is offline
MagicSmoker Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 06:39 PM   #2
luke2080
Insert Witty Title Here..
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
luke2080's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 452
Liked 17 Times on 16 Posts

Default

FYI - The purpose of adding the OO to the starter 5 hours before use is to build up the yeast cells, so they are ready to go. This test could probably be run putting a drop of OO into the fermentor, but at that time the yeast would already start to duplicate (rather than adding the OO to the starter after it has been done, to build them up). Feel free to aerate the initial starter as necessary.

This may very well reveal no results, or very limited results. But to me this is an interesting topic, and one that hasn't been covered to death. After all I've gained over the past couple of years from detailed analysis of co2 use, refractometer adjustments, water chemistry, yeast starters, etc, I figure I'll try to pay it back on this topic. I'm not a scientist or engineer, but I'm used to doing a detailed analysis of variables so I can recommend the right solution to management at my company - or else I get skewered. So I'll put that to some funner use.

Again - please keep opinions to the other thread. But please do provide feedback on the test and anything else that could be recorded.

This is a pretty simple thing to test, and so I hope we get enough of the experienced brewers on this board to join in - if even for 1 or 2 of their batches. If 50 people do 2 tests, splitting each test to at least 2 batches, my math says we'll have at least 200 data points!

__________________
luke2080 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 06:41 PM   #3
luke2080
Insert Witty Title Here..
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
luke2080's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 452
Liked 17 Times on 16 Posts

Default

Attaching an image of how I'll record the results into Excel.

oo.jpg  
__________________
luke2080 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 06:47 PM   #4
luke2080
Insert Witty Title Here..
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
luke2080's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 452
Liked 17 Times on 16 Posts

Default

Taste Test Results:
Be sure the batches are split into marked glasses, known only to whom is giving the test. (Have your SWMBO set it up for you). Its important it is a blind taste test and rank the beers. This is very subjective, but simply ranks which option you like best.

When performing the Taste Test, the best method is the "blind triangle test". See post 13. If you can do that, please do. Or whether it is single blind, or double blind - post your taste test method with the results. Post 1 has been edited to show this.

__________________
luke2080 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 07:37 PM   #5
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,205
Liked 412 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 466

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke2080 View Post
Taste Test Results:
Be sure the batches are split into marked glasses, known only to whom is giving the test. (Have your SWMBO set it up for you). Its important it is a blind taste test and rank the beers. This is very subjective, but simply ranks which option you like best.
It needs to be a blind triangle test. Two of one beer and one of the other. Pick out the one that's different and if it used OO or not. If you misidentify the different beer, the comments about OO are discarded.
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 07:50 PM   #6
luke2080
Insert Witty Title Here..
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
luke2080's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 452
Liked 17 Times on 16 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
It needs to be a blind triangle test. Two of one beer and one of the other. Pick out the one that's different and if it used OO or not. If you misidentify the different beer, the comments about OO are discarded.
Well - that is more complicated if testing 3 or 4 types of aeration methods with the OO.

Another data point that could be gathered though - did this taste like it had OO.

Also - If aeration and OO provide the same result, and same test, tasting the same, there is a 50% chance you'll get the guess wrong about which one is different anyway.
__________________
luke2080 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 07:56 PM   #7
Vigo_Carpathian
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Vigo_Carpathian's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Mateo, California
Posts: 599
Liked 145 Times on 92 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

The true test would be to try OO without aeration on a 1.090 imperial stout. I do add a drop of OO to my starters (I don't use a stir plate) but I also aerate the wort before pitching, so I'm not sure if it really makes a difference.

__________________
Vigo_Carpathian is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 07:57 PM   #8
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,205
Liked 412 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 466

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke2080 View Post
Well - that is more complicated if testing 3 or 4 types of aeration methods with the OO.

Another data point that could be gathered though - did this taste like it had OO.

Also - If aeration and OO provide the same result, and same test, tasting the same, there is a 50% chance you'll get the guess wrong about which one is different anyway.
You need to figure out how to do it. I've done enough of these experiments to realize that the triangle test is the only way to go.
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #9
luke2080
Insert Witty Title Here..
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
luke2080's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 452
Liked 17 Times on 16 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigo_Carpathian View Post
The true test would be to try OO without aeration on a 1.090 imperial stout. I do add a drop of OO to my starters (I don't use a stir plate) but I also aerate the wort before pitching, so I'm not sure if it really makes a difference.
The batch that gets the OO needs to have minimal splashing/aeration. At least as minimal as feasible.

So do the starter first. Then 5 or 6 hours before you brew, split the starter, and add OO to one.

Vigo - I agree that the High Gravity beer will show more of an impact. Next time you do this, add this one small step and share the results.
__________________
luke2080 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-10-2013, 08:02 PM   #10
luke2080
Insert Witty Title Here..
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
luke2080's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 452
Liked 17 Times on 16 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
You need to figure out how to do it. I've done enough of these experiments to realize that the triangle test is the only way to go.
What I'm trying to measure: does it ferment all the way, and does it taste bad/good. The easiest way to quantify the taste test is to rank the beers from the same test. Its a simple NSAT "customer satisfaction" type metric. If we do 100 tests and all the beers ferment to the same rate, and the weight of ranking splits 50/50, its pretty conclusive OO does nothing.

This isn't a test of - can you taste the OO. However, I would think if someone can taste it, it'll get ranked lower than their other test sample.

For what I'm trying to measure, I'll stick with the ranking system.

Added: Did anyone taste OO?: To the list of results. If you have multiple people answer, record all the answers. I'd be interested to see how many people say yes, in batches where none was used.

Denny - that is not exactly what you were looking for, but for what I'd like to test, I'll keep it like that. Thanks for the feedback.
__________________
luke2080 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using Olive oil instead of Oxygen Germey General Techniques 286 05-27-2014 09:23 PM
olive oil in the boil redsox1 General Beer Discussion 4 11-22-2012 01:44 PM
olive oil? stevenryals Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 15 02-15-2011 06:36 PM
Olive oil ? abbot555 Mead Forum 5 12-17-2010 02:08 AM
Olive Oil? RonRock Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 10 09-29-2008 01:21 AM