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Old 02-12-2013, 06:43 PM   #11
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Fair point, will do. Thanks for the advice.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:27 PM   #12
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Methanol is produced in miniscule amounts in all-grain ferments. It is made in significantly larger amounts in wine ferments from fruit that is high in pectin. Methanol is not removed during spirit processing. That's why they use it to denature ethanol.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:38 PM   #13
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Since methanol has a boiling point of 65C, versus ethanol's boiling point of 78C, a distiller can remove much of the methanol by discarding the foreshots. Obviously you can't do so during freeze concentration. Since apples contain fairly high levels of pectin, there's a reasonable chance that you'll be concentrating a dangerous amount of methanol when you make applejack, especially if you do multiple concentration steps. I wouldn't recommend it.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:58 PM   #14
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A minor gripe of mine:

'distillation is dangerous', especially when coming from homebrewers

If one is going to make such a statement then it should be backed up by some commentary at least. I'm not asking for citation. However I'm willing to bet if distillation were fully legal/unregulated fewer people would die from improper distillation than die from lightning strikes, falling TVs, or in a worst case scenario from falling down stairs.

I suspect for most the idea of distillation being dangerous is embedded with the alcohol poisoning stories from prohibition. What occurred during prohibition was not a product of the dangers of distillation but was a product of the dangers of prohibition of any product which produces violent desperate black markets. Heck the federal government murdered over 10,000 of it's subjects on purpose with secret poisoning efforts.

I concede the point that due to a myriad of reason it's more dangerous than homebrewing, however terming it dangerous in general is pretty ludicrous.

stepping down from high horse...

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Old 02-25-2013, 02:28 PM   #15
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Also, if the issue of the danger for the OP is methanol poisoning, just for his own information, the current treatment I know of for this is ethanol. So is a rather crude statement, if you're worried about there being too much methanol in it, have a few homebrews after your apple jack, that should wash the methanol through you well enough, of it's worth the risk.

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Old 02-26-2013, 12:02 PM   #16
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Much of the danger associated with distillation during prohibition were caused by lead poisoning - both in the form of dissolved lead and in the form 0.45" diameter pellets of the metal. Dissolved lead derived from lead based solder in the equipment remained a danger well past prohibition. Explosive vapor near fire was doubtless also a problem.

And yes, EtOH is an 'antidote' for MeOH poisoning. ADH preferentially binds to it so that the MeOH can't oxidize to formaldehyde and then formic acid which are the things that really do the poisoning. The idea is to keep the ADH busy with EtOH until the the MeOH is disposed of via other pathways. Thus it would seem that the inclusion of EtOH in products like apple jack and cider would offer some measure of protection from the MeOH also found in those products. A distiller will, nevertheless, throw away (or sell to a chemical company) the heads which are higher in MeOH than the mids.

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Old 02-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #17
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Huh, I didn't know the danger originated from lead equipment. Where did the lead pellets come from? Bad polishing/grinding of equipment that left things behind?

I thought the major danger was blindness, which I believe is due to the formic acid, as well as mitochondrial inhibition, again, from the formic acid build up.

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Old 02-26-2013, 12:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRussMeister View Post
Huh, I didn't know the danger originated from lead equipment. Where did the lead pellets come from? Bad polishing/grinding of equipment that left things behind?
Long chain sugars were nitrated and placed in small brass containers with the lead pellets fitted into the mouths of the containers. These assemblies were then placed into the mouths of long tubes and locked into place. After a shock to the opposite (from the lead) end of the brass container the nitrated sugar molecules rapidly decomposed into oxides of nitrogen and carbon and water. These gasses, being under high pressure, propelled the lead pellets through the tube at high velocity. One of the most popular providers of the apparatus was named Thompson.

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I thought the major danger was blindness, which I believe is due to the formic acid, as well as mitochondrial inhibition, again, from the formic acid build up.
AFAIK it is and formic acid is the culprit.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
Long chain sugars were nitrated and placed in small brass containers with the lead pellets fitted into the mouths of the containers. These assemblies were then placed into the mouths of long tubes and locked into place. After a shock to the opposite (from the lead) end of the brass container the nitrated sugar molecules rapidly decomposed into oxides of nitrogen and carbon and water. These gasses, being under high pressure, propelled the lead pellets through the tube at high velocity. One of the most popular providers of the apparatus was named Thompson.
This has the be the best/most nerdy explanation I could have hoped for then the lead 'pellets' were asked about. This makes my day. Now...time to leave work a bit early and go have a pint.
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:51 PM   #20
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When freezing, the problem is not in the concetration of different types of alcohols within the product. In the body, Ethanol and Methanol bond with each other and can cancel each other out. Most cases of MEthanol poisoning are a result of adultarents being added into a product to cheaply boost its ABV. (This happens in a lot of third world countries) Fractional freezing simply removes the ammount of water contained within the total beverage; it does not change the ratio of methanol to ethanol, so while you may get a ripper of a headache from drinking "More" of the methanol, the frozen beverage shouldn't kill you as long as sanitation is followed, and nothing foreign is added to your brew RDWHAHB

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