lots of acid for five gallons of beer?

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Surly

Surly

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I will soon be brewing an Amber Ale of 5 gallons. I need 8.17 gallons of water to do so. My water report indicates Bicarbonate of 314.5

Using Bru'n Water I will start with 80% RO water with the spreadsheet set using the, "Amber Balanced" option in the Desired Water Profile setting.

Bru'n Water has me adding 1.9ml of Lactic acid to my 3.75 gallons of mash and 6.0ml of it to my 4.4 gallons of sparge water to get an estimated mash PH of 5.3.

This seems like an awful lot of acid and am asking those with experience if this looks correct, or, am I doing something wrong in my spreadsheet input?
 
The sparge water is the easy one. What happens depends on the starting pH of the water. If it is originally at pH 8 then 6 ml of 88% acid will lower its pH to about 5.9 but if the water started at pH 7 then the acid would bring it to about 5.43. Both are below 6 which is the goal of acidifying sparge water. This amounts to adding 384 mg/L lactate to the water and that's quite a bit (but then your alkalinity is pretty high).

As to the mash: I'd need to know more about the overall picture wrt the water, the grain bill etc. 1.9 mL of 88% acid would provide 1.4 mEq/L H+ in going to pH 5.3 which would neutralize some of the bicarbonate but your water has 5.4 mEq/L of that and you are, thus, relying on acids from the grain to take you the rest of the way. If you have lots of dark crystal, roasted etc they may supply it but 1.9 mL may not be enough from alkalinity considerations if you don't.

The real point is that you shouldn't be brewing with water that is this alkaline. There are lots of ways to get the alkalinity into a more manageable region.
 
ajdelange said:
...The real point is that you shouldn't be brewing with water that is this alkaline. There are lots of ways to get the alkalinity into a more manageable region.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. My water will not be used for brewing until I get a better handle on solutions.

If I look at the primer above, I will be using 100% RO water.

I am brewing an Amber Ale with 10 lbs of base and 1lb of Caravienne. I will treat my water at the Baseline level and not deviate.

"Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist."

Again aj, thanks for your service.
 
That is a lot of acid, but that is a very alkaline water. Given that there is such high alkalinity, there are a couple of easy ways to reduce both hardness and alkalinity. That will reduce the reliance on acidification for alkalinity control.

Both a Boiling treatment and Lime treatment will reduce the water's hardness and alkalinity prior to brewing. Of course that requires time and energy, but it may be worth it to your beer quality.
 
mabrungard said:
That is a lot of acid, but that is a very alkaline water. Given that there is such high alkalinity, there are a couple of easy ways to reduce both hardness and alkalinity. That will reduce the reliance on acidification for alkalinity control.

Both a Boiling treatment and Lime treatment will reduce the water's hardness and alkalinity prior to brewing. Of course that requires time and energy, but it may be worth it to your beer quality.
Click to expand...

Thanks Martin for the advise.

Now, I have time. I also enjoy the hobby and want to do it right, learning new procedures.

The boiling treatment. A day before I want to brew, I boil the total amount of water I need. (Plus hourly boil off.). Then, treat with lime and the next day brew?

Or, is that too simple? How long would one boil to make certain the hardness is lessened?
 
You don't even have to boil it - bringing it to near boil temperature is sufficient but if you don't let it come to ebulition then you will have to aerate it or spray it through a nozzle. Just bringing it to a boil is doubtless easiest. As it approaches boiling temperature it will turn milky and then a precipitate will form. Allow that to settle and decant. No need for lime if you boil. No need to boil if you use lime.

But there is a catch here. Your water must be hard in addition to being alkaline. If it isn't then you must add calcium to the extent that you want to reduce alkalinity. You have alkalinity of 315. The practical limitation for reduction by boiling (or lime treatment) is 50 so you will be shooting for reducing down to 315 - 50 = 265 ppm as CaCO3. You must have at least 265 ppm calcium harndess to do that. You may very well have that much in which case boiling could be a good way to go. If you don't then you will have to supplement the calcium with either the sulfate or the chloride. In either case it becomes a question of substituting an anion for the bicarbonate ion. Not an acid anion this time but rather chloride or sulfate.

Another thing to think about here: given that your water is as alkaline as it is it is probably also very hard to the point where you have installed a softener. You would have to boil the pre softened water as the post softened won't contain the calcium you need to make this work.

Lots of people with water this bad simply throw up their hands and go to RO which isn't a bad idea provided that you have ready access to a source. Given that you do it is certainly much simpler than boiling or lime treatment and more predictable (you never know exactly how much bicarb you will precipitate and most people don't want to be bothered measuring). But if you want to learn about brewing then you should probably do it at least once.
 
ajdelange said:
You don't even have to boil it - bringing it to near boil temperature is sufficient but if you don't let it come to ebulition then you will have to aerate it or spray it through a nozzle. Just bringing it to a boil is doubtless easiest. As it approaches boiling temperature it will turn milky and then a precipitate will form. Allow that to settle and decant. No need for lime if you boil. No need to boil if you use lime.

But there is a catch here. Your water must be hard in addition to being alkaline. If it isn't then you must add calcium to the extent that you want to reduce alkalinity. You have alkalinity of 315. The practical limitation for reduction by boiling (or lime treatment) is 50 so you will be shooting for reducing down to 315 - 50 = 265 ppm as CaCO3. You must have at least 265 ppm calcium harndess to do that. You may very well have that much in which case boiling could be a good way to go. If you don't then you will have to supplement the calcium with either the sulfate or the chloride. In either case it becomes a question of substituting an anion for the bicarbonate ion. Not an acid anion this time but rather chloride or sulfate.

Another thing to think about here: given that your water is as alkaline as it is it is probably also very hard to the point where you have installed a softener. You would have to boil the pre softened water as the post softened won't contain the calcium you need to make this work.

Lots of people with water this bad simply throw up their hands and go to RO which isn't a bad idea provided that you have ready access to a source. Given that you do it is certainly much simpler than boiling or lime treatment and more predictable (you never know exactly how much bicarb you will precipitate and most people don't want to be bothered measuring). But if you want to learn about brewing then you should probably do it at least once.
Click to expand...

Well, here I am with my hands in the air. I am going to let this go for a bit. I have enough with setting up the brewery and converting my single tier from NG to LP.

I will do a forum search about RO water as I thought I remember reading there are some issues I would need to pay attention to when using RO. I am going to let this thread drop down. I may start another if I need some help with RO.

Again Thank you very much.
 
The main issue with RO is getting your hands on it. Gordon Strong has a neighbor who picks up his empty jugs, takes them to work, fills them and brings them back. Most of us don't have a deal like that and either have to go to a store and buy it or install a system.

Beyond that it's a piece of cake. See the Primer in the Stickies.
 
The RO systems are cheap & you will use it for way more than just brewing water. Can you say clear ice cubes? Tasty drinking water? Spot-free rinse for glasses? Hehe.
 

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