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**BrewKnurd** · 07-31-2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GotPushrods

As usual he is right on.

I guess I was just implying that when the K value (the equilibrium constant) is soooo small or large (in this case large for the simplified, overall reaction) under mash conditions.... you can essentially "round off" LeChatelier for practical purposes.

There is still some cool chemistry going on, but as a homebrewer it will be very difficult to actually take advantage of the fact that it's in equilibrium.

If that makes sense...

And it would appear we are indeed all on the exact same page.

peanutaxis · 07-31-2012, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewKnurd

Le chateliers principle applies only to equilibrium situations. Starches being broken down into sugars in a mash is a one way process. Nothing is putting the sugars back together to make starches.

Ah, yes, that makes sense. I wondered that it didn't apply.

**pjj2ba** · 08-01-2012, 03:18 PM

Equilibrium is a weird word. It has a common definition and technical definition that is the same - forward and reverse reactions at the same rate resulting in no net change (of whatever). However "commonly" people think of this in the realm of whole numbers (i.e. 50/50, even 95/5) yet technically, something can be at equilibrium at ratios like 1 million to 1

**BrewKnurd** · 08-01-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjj2ba

Equilibrium is a weird word. It has a common definition and technical definition that is the same - forward and reverse reactions at the same rate resulting in no net change (of whatever). However "commonly" people think of this in the realm of whole numbers (i.e. 50/50, even 95/5) yet technically, something can be at equilibrium at ratios like 1 million to 1

Absolutely. And even taken to the extreme of a hypothetical reaction that was absolutely one way, with no way for the reverse reaction to occur, it would still meet the defintion of equilibrium once the reaction was complete, as the forward and reverse reactions would both be happening at the same rate, that being not at all.

**ajdelange** · 08-01-2012, 04:38 PM

I guess a formal definition would say that all derivatives of the state variables are 0 meaning that if the system is not disturbed nothing will change no matter how long you wait.