Thehopguy

Recipes 

I'm going to use bottled Crystal Geyser water, I found this water report online: http://crystalgeyserasw.com/docs/Bottled_Water_Report_Olancha.pdf

Calcium: 18.8-23.6
Magnesium: 1.4-2.2
Bicarbonate: 59.2-68.9
Sulfate: 25.5-35.6
Sodium: 19-21.8
Chloride: 2.7-4.2

So going off these results, and AJ's primer in the stickies, I'm going to add 1 tsp Gyspum and 1 tsp Calcium Chloride per 5 gallons to my next brew with Crystal Geyser.

I'm making IPA's and the beer is good but not great. and the hops certainly don't shine. This should boost my calcium and sulfates enough to accentuate the hops and give it a better hoppy presence if I've done my homework correctly.

Does this sound like a good idea, if not, im open to all suggestions and tips or criticism. Thanks

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mabrungard

Recipes 

That approach should be fine. That bottled water doesn't have any overboard concentrations.

Have you investigated your tap water? I saw a San Diego area water report a few weeks ago and noticed that it could form a good basis for hoppy ales. The sulfate was a little elevated, but the rest of the profile was moderate. It would still require additional sulfate to make a popping IPA, but that is a simple addition. The only other thing to watch for is the mash pH. That tap water might have a touch too much alkalinity to drop the mash into a desirable range. A little acid or acid malt solves that easily.

Enjoy!

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johnnybrew

Recipes 

One suggestion: when making these additions, calculate the amount you will need for the volume of water used in your mash tun and then add the salts directly to the mash and then dough in. The pH of the mash will help get them into solution. If you don't, chances are that much of the salt will be in solid form at the bottom of your HLT.

Then, after sparging and collecting your volume for the boil, add the remaining salts based on the volume you just added from the sparge. E.g., you collected 3.5 gals from the mash, sparged and collected 7.5 gals total. Add the salts you need for the remaining 4 gals from the sparge.

Keep good notes and enjoy.

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ajdelange

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I recommend that you do not follow the advice in #3. You are proposing to add calcium sulfate and calcium chloride. Calcium sulfate is soluble to the extent of 2 grams per liter. You are planning to add 5 grams to 19 liters so you are way under the solubility limit (.26 gram/ liter). Calcium chloride is 100 times more soluble than that. Both salts are the salts of a strong acid and a strong base so that their solubilities are not influenced by pH.

Nevertheless, gypsum can take some stirring to get it dissolved. Be sure you add gypsum to cold water as it more readily dissolves in cold than hot. Also, dissolve the gypsum first. When there is calcium present in water the solubility of gypsum goes down (common ion effect) somewhat.

If you don't want to do all the stirring it takes to dissolve the gypsum (and it really isn't that bad) then at least suspend it in the water just before strike. This way at least the salt particles will be distributed uniformly throughout the mash. Mixing powder into crushed grain is a lot of work and uniform mixing is very important if the salt is to do its job. Given the amount of stirring it takes to dissolve gypsum in water you should be able to get an idea of how much extra work it would be if the water were thickened with malt.

I strongly recommend dissolving in water first. The ions are then ready to go to work when they hit the grain. If the powder is added to the grains it's going to take a lot longer to get it ionized.

johnnybrew

Recipes 

ajdelange - Careful about providing absolute advice. This is just another area in brewing where different approaches will yield the same result.

The approach I outlined is what I use with great results. It is not difficult to mix the mash. In fact, the mixing is natural since you are mixing your grains to ensure even mixing, even heat distribution and getting rid of any dough balls. And, don't believe what people think about hot side aeration evils. Normal mixing is ok (as discussed by Charlie Bamforth). As long as you're not whisking your mash, you're ok.

I picked up my approach from Brew Strong's four-part series on adjusting water that John and Jamil discussed. It's how I learned it, it works, is reliable and repeatable. I'd recommend the series and many of the other Brew Strong pod casts: The Brewing Network.com - Shows and Podcasts: Brew Strong

If you plan to use 100% of the water that you mash-in with, great - get all the salts in there and make sure you get all the bits of undissolved salts out of the pot and into your mash. In my experience, most brewers get more water than is needed prepped prior to douging in for those occasions where they need to adjust upwards for the target infusion temp. So, if you add it to the pot of strike water, be sure you use it all or you won't be adding the salt concentrations that you are set out to add.

Or, if you prefer, start with a smaller volume of water just to get the salts mixed into the water and then make up the needed strike volume. Again, get all of the bits out of there. ANY METHOD you use requires the brewer to mix up the mash evenly to ensure distribution.

Yes, some salts will be more/less soluble in your tap water. But, CaCO3 for example, won't go into solution without some help.

For me, it's just easier to put the salts into the mash, dough in and mix. My mashes are on average 10 pounds of grain and 4 gals of water. This isn't difficult to mix. Using the same approach, regardless of the salts, provides consistency from batch to batch. To each his own. Find what works for you and stick to it.

I'd recommend JP's water spreadsheet, as well as much reading as you can digest on the topic. Water chemistry can be confusing. Go to the bottom of the following page for the spreadsheet download: How to Brew - By John Palmer - Residual Alkalinity and Mash pH

Good luck.

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johnnybrew

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BTW, AJ - you have an impressive body of work on the science of brewing on your home page.

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DSmith

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I've noticed what AJ said about CaSO4 disolving in brewing water recently. Mixed my tap water with a large portion of RO water in a 6.5 gallon bucket reserved for water treating, all cold water. Added CaCl2 and CaSO4 per the primer, brewed immediately and then tasted some extra water at the end of the brew out of curiousity. It had more noticable sulfate taste than what it should have if the CaSO4 was properly dissolved. I believe there were even undissolved crystals of CaSO4 like mentioned.

Since then I prepare the water a day in advance, mix well when adding the salts and mix before using the water. It's an interesting experiment set aside a sample of the water at the beginning of the brew and then sample remaining water and compare. They have been consistent now with some extra time and mixing.

ajdelange

Recipes 

When I recommend against doing something I always try, as I did here, to give the reasons why I don't think it's a good idea. It is then up to the readers to decide whether they think my reasons are valid or not.

Calcium chloride is so soluble it would dissolve instantly and your only concern would be to get it uniformly mixed throughout. Gypsum dissolves more slowly and even more so when it is being dissolved in hot water. If it takes a long time with stirring to dissolve it in cold water it will take even longer with stirring to dissolve it in mash.


I thought perhaps you were confusing things with CaCO3. CaCO3 is insoluble (for all intents and purposes) in water unless acid is supplied. In nature that acid is supplied in the form of dissolved carbon dioxide. IMO it is misguided to add CaCO3 to mash relying on mash acids to do what carbon dioxide does in nature with the expectation that one is somehow emulating the water of a particular brewing center. If one wants to do that then he should do what nature does and use CO2 - not malt acids. Adding CaCO3 to mash often has the effect of raising mash pH to levels much higher than they should be. The good news is that it usually doesn't have the opportunity to react because it doesn't get thoroughly dispersed and the reactions are slow at mash pH. This is good news really as the amounts of chalk additions are usually excessive based on a flawed SRM/alkalinity model. I recommend that people do not add alkali (as CaCO3 or in any other form) unless a valid pH reading (and that means made with a meter) indicates that it is necessary. In my experience it is seldom necessary.


Agreed but if someone tells you that there may be a better way, try to figure out where he is coming from. 'Better is the enemy of good enough' is the enemy of better beer.

The early versions of this spreadsheet contained the flawed model I mentioned earlier. Unless there have been changes I can't recommend it. I can't check whether the problem area has been fixed as the new Mac verison of Excel won't open older spreadsheets done on a PC.

Thehopguy

Recipes 

Thanks for all the great responses. My plan now is to take two 5 gallon jugs full of my brew water and add 1 tsp Gypsum and 1 tsp Calcium Chloride to EACH 5 gallon jug of brew water the day before I brew to let it all dissolve. Then it should be ready to go for the following day.

Does this sound like a good idea?

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On Deck: Double IPA, GTBT V3
Primary: GTBT APA
Bottled: GTBT V2, GTBT V1, Black IPA, Centennial IPA, Pumpkin Ale, Badboy IPA, Simarillo APA

ajdelange

Recipes 

It will take longer for it to dissolve just standing. If you can figure out some way to agitate it or stir it then it will dissolve faster. If you have a March pump in your setup, for example, you could recirculate with that.